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WHAT IS ARMINIANISM AND CALVINISM
There is way too much useless confusion about these two schools of theology that have more in common than not.This discussions will be done in an effort to clear up some misunderstandings between the 2 major schools of Theology, so we can equip ourselves correctly.
I will give the basics and go a little deep into each system. Roger Olson has written a wonderful book detailing common misconceptions Calvinist hold about Arminians and there are many books also showing how Arminians misunderstand Reformed Theology. This is a very important topic family.
>>Jacobus Arminius (October 10, 1560–October 19, 1609), the Latinized name of the Dutch theologian Jakob Harmenszoon from the Protestant Reformation period, (also known by the Anglicized names of Jacob Arminius or James Arminius), served from 1603 as professor in theology at the University of Leiden. He wrote many books and treatises on theology, and his views became the basis of Arminianism and the Dutch Remonstrant movement.Wesley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobus_Arminius
>>John Calvin (Middle French: Jean Cauvin) (10 July 1509 – 27 May 1564) was an influential French theologian and pastor during the Protestant Reformation. He was a principal figure in the development of the system of Christian theology later called Calvinism. Originally trained as a humanist lawyer, he broke from the Roman Catholic Church around 1530. After religious tensions provoked a violent uprising against Protestants in France, Calvin fled to Basel, Switzerland, where in 1536 he published the first edition of his seminal work Institutes of the Christian Religion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Calvin
Feel free to jump in as we discuss the Doctrines of Grace. The order of Salvation, Predestination, Free will, God's election, Limited or unlimited Atonement, Resistible or Irresistible grace etc...
Enjoy!
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Ok family I will give it another shot,
>>Do all children belong to God?
This is what we know:
Psalms 51:5
5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Romans 3:10
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
The above verses teach us that we are born in sin.
Numbers 14:28-32 (New International Version)
28 So tell them, 'As surely as I live, declares the LORD, I will do to you the very things I heard you say: 29 In this desert your bodies will fall—every one of you twenty years old or more who was counted in the census and who has grumbled against me. 30 Not one of you will enter the land I swore with uplifted hand to make your home, except Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of Nun. 31 As for your children that you said would be taken as plunder, I will bring them in to enjoy the land you have rejected. 32 But you—your bodies will fall in this desert.
These verses indicate to many that there is an age of accountability. Not sure if I agree with that or not, the use of these verses to estqblished that, that is.
We also know that:
2 Samuel 12:22
22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell [whether] GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
David said he would join his child again. Was David going to hell or heave?
1 Corinthians 7:14
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
The children are called holy, of course these one are called holy due to their parents being believers, but am not sure this verse has anything to do with a child being able to go to heaven if he dies, but is an interesting one.
Mark 10:13
13. And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and [his] disciples rebuked those that brought [them].
14 But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. 16 And he took them up in his arms, put [his] hands upon them, and blessed them.
We must become like a child, innocent and trusting, not that the kingdom of heaven belongs to the children. I do realized that, but also interesting to throw in the mix.
Ok so with the above verses in mind what can we conclude? We are all born sinners because we are descendants of Adam and hence God’s justice is not tainted if He killed all the children in the flood and they go to hell. But “I think” God can kill the children as He is passing judgment on the adults justly and still chose to save/allow those children who only had sin due to the inheritance of Adam to enter heaven. At least I would like to think that. God is the giver of life, and thus has the right to take life as well. Yeah, God knows what He's doing. Even if half a billion children perished in the flood, God knows the moral status of each. In eternity, God's scales of justice (not ours) will be balanced, for children as well as adults.
So family this is what I can find in scripture and some verses do not really speak to the issue, but I found they may in an obscure way. But I don’t really know what happens to children, but would like to believe they go to heaven.
Sis Linda -
I see that you are using some of the same verses as I include here, so I would have saved me some time if I would have read your comment first. haha
Carla - This is a hard question.
Blessings :) -
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hey Linda..
all great points... Thanks for responding.. ;-)
regarding the videos.. I really think you would all enjoy them as a family.. Here comes the popcorn (if you like popcorn)---i personally love popcorn!
This verse is resounding in my heart and thoughts..
Trust the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will make your paths straight.
Blessings, Carla -
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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I hadn't read your response before I mentioned my objection. I didn't watch all the videos but noticed in the first couple that the gentleman hadn't represented correctly the Calvinistic position. I see you listened to them all. LInda, you sure do have a good grasp of Scripture.
Roy -
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David, this response goes with the video above you have posted and the remaining part of his teaching.
Very funny, however, he does misrepresent the position by saying that salvation proceeds faith. He is treating salvation as a partial process rather than the complete process of our relationship with God. He equates the new birth with salvation. If an individual wants to believe that it was actually he that chose God, that is okay with me. I am with him on the other issues. I do believe the person must be raised in order to respond to God's call. The raising is not the total process of salvation. It is only part of the process. A person is not completely saved until he believes on the Lord Jesus. Again, it is certainly okay to take this position that it is your choice and not His. However, it is obvious that he does not understand the position that it is God's choice. -
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Permalink Reply by William Bixby on
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Well, I was reading in Romans 9 and it said, who am I to reply to God? And doesn't God "have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?" As our Potter, I could see, God was not only choosing where people spend eternity, but a potter controls the clay to make it into what it becomes. So, I understood, there and then, that God does not only choose, but controls. So, then, I decided that neither the free will nor the predestination people are going all the way with what the Bible really says about predestination. But . . . what would become of me, then? It was very clear to me, this was saying that God decides and was controlling what becomes of me; so I accepted that He decides where I spend eternity, since it clearly said this to me: it didn't matter what I thought. So, I stopped and, Ok, what are You going to do with me? I'm going to wait, here, and see what You do.
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Amen William,
Our waiting is not a passive one though as I am sure you know. We wait for Him to open and close doors according to His good pleasure, but we realized that we must be busy in kingdom business. We also realize that He will have the last word, but that does not negate the fact that He has given us liberty to chose good or evil. Let us chose life and life more abundantly.
Blessings -
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William,
Unless I am missing something in your post, you are missing the point. The key is faith. Those who believe in Him will follow after Him. Those who are simply religious will not. Anyone can read the Bible and gain some knowledge. However, His sheep will know He is their Shepherd. His sheep know His voice. They do not wonder where they will spend eternity, they know He will not ever fail them since He came to take them with Him.
If you are a believer, you won't be waiting long as you will receive your marching orders. He has a purpose for all that come to Him and He does not give any the option of just sitting around and waiting. I recommend that you read the entire New Testament - not just one part - and get the whole picture. You are missing a major part of His Word.
I am assuming you really don't mean what you have written.
Roy -
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Hi, Roy . . . What I just shared, above, is what I experienced maybe about twenty-five years ago. And I did not wait long. Also, I kept on reading to Philippians 2:13 . . . "for it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." This showed me a similar thing, that I needed to not be trying to make myself do something, but see what God in me worked me to will and worked me to do.
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William, Amen
I agree wholeheartedly. It is natural for God's children to begin to do the work they were ordained to do.
Eph 2:10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. NIV
Roy -
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Ah-HAH . . . so it is what God prepared for us to do, and it is better than what we would do or were planning to do (c:
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Amen,
The plan and purpose of God is the most of all the beautiful subjects. We find it beginning in Gen. 1:1 and ending in:
Rv 22:20-21
20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen. NIV
The last word we hear is the power of God's grace to bring about every detail of His mighty plan. He will perform in us by His power and will. My two most favorite studies are His creation and His grace. However, it is all good from start to finish. It is beyond man's imagination to know what all He has planned for us.
Amen, come Lord Jesus. -
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If God has already chosen who will be saved, why witness and pray?
What does it mean that God wants all people to come to repentance? Part 1
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