All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
The Sabbath
Why Are churches and congregations still think that it doesn't matter which day you worship the lord on?? Is it because they are blinded by self-righteousness or just plain arrogance??
One of the Lord's Commandments is, Not forget the sabbath, and to Keep it Holy. So why will they obey some of the commandments, yet disobey others??
It is by who keeps the Sabbath, that God will know who his children really are.
I would like to know what others think about what I have written.
Your Sister....Denise
One of the Lord's Commandments is, Not forget the sabbath, and to Keep it Holy. So why will they obey some of the commandments, yet disobey others??
It is by who keeps the Sabbath, that God will know who his children really are.
I would like to know what others think about what I have written.
Your Sister....Denise
Views: 420
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by delores kay napier on
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denise...GOD gave us the saturday sabbath at creation...EX. 2:2-3.GOD tested israel again about his sabbath day in EX. 16:4-5. then in EX. 16:22-23 he gave them to moses on mt. sinai. they were kept back then & are still to be kept today.the o.t. is just as alive in the new testment as in the torah... talking about it being absolete i dont believe that. the only thing that was made obsolete were the levitical prieshood sanctuary and sacificial systems...JESUS fullfilled that when he became our sacrifical passover lamb replacing the old system with a newer better system replacing the old levitical preisthood with himself as our high priest for eternality.if you look at the o.t. in EX. 12:5-6 you will see the true parallel of PASSOVER in both old & new testament.....see what i mean...your lamb ( JESUS) shall be with out blemish ( pure) a male ( JESUS) a year old ( innocent). take the sheep keep until 14th nisan & the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at evening ( just before sunset) so you have the passover , the feast of unleaven bread which was the holy day GOD told israel to be ready to leave egypt...lev. 23 you can read it there.......... after that comes Pentecost. GOD says count 50 days after passover sabbath which would fall on a sunday always...
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there are some who think GODS laws are obsolete using heb. 8:13. what they are discussing are ceremonial sacrifical laws in which animals were sacrificed for the remission(forgiveness) of sins every year. read all of heb. chapters 7,8,9. james 2:10 speaks of the 10 commandments(only).. .when ask about the great commandment jesus says..matthew22:37-40.you shall love the LORD your GOD with all your heart withall your soul & with all your mind this is the first & great law. and the second is you shall love your neighbor as yourself. on this hang all the law & prophets. so commandments 1-4 is fulfilled by loving GOD & commandments 5-10 fulfilled in love your neighbor. pauls says in romans 7;22-23 i delight in the law of GOD according to the inward (spiritual) man.but i see another law in my members(body)warring against the law of my mind (spiritual)& bringing me into captivity of the law of sin which is my members(body)... you serve the spiritual law by faith in jesus his death, burial & ressurretion repenting of your sins believing GODS word of eternal life.... obeying & loving GOD
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Tom, please do not mistake the decree of Constantine as "changing" the day of worship; rather it was an affirmation of what the majority of the church had already been doing for two centuries. Hence, all of the other christian groups who were under different bishops and different legal systems also worshipped on Sunday (and still do).
Note that the Coptic, the Eastern Orthodox, the Russian Orthodox, the Indian Apostolic (founded by Thomas) and the Chaldean churches all keep Sunday. The Indian Christians had no knowledge of Rome, nor of their politics. Yet they have kept Sunday as the day of worship from the beginning.
What happened in Rome was that there were several heresies, all of which were asserting authority as soon as the church was brought out of the catacombs. Constantine was not a Biblical Scholar, but had converted to Christianity and legalized it in the empire. He presided over a counsel that sought to affirm scriptural (Apostolic) authority for the true faith - to clear up major controversy. His purpose was to end the controversy over modes of worship and what constituted the faith - now that the church was no longer "underground".
We see this same thing happening in countries where the church is persecuted: various false beliefs take root when there is not Biblical authority being taught. Sooner or later, when that Biblical authority is established - then there is a conflict with the false beliefs (heresies).
In Nicea, there was an attempt to affirm truth - and there were good things that resulted. The other issues you have recently referred to about Roman Catholicism (idolatry and changing the commandments) came along later, as a result of the schisms between the east and west. Rome never fully cleared up the heresy and it became a problem in later centuries. But, you still can't see that as a single set of events - it was centuries of change. There are centuries of good Biblical growth in Rome, while they sought to evangelize the heathen. There are many examples of true Christianity spreading across the empire.
What we have today is a result of merging state and church, leading up to - during - and after the fall of the Roman empire. There are very complex politics that took place during many centuries which impacted Roman theology. That was not an immediate situation under Constantine and it is a mistake to reckon Constantine as the founder of modern Roman Catholicism.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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For those who hold that Sunday became the day of worship only after the 325 council meeting need only look up Justin Martyr's work "The First Apology." Go to the 67th chapter and you will find a clear teaching as to when and why the church met at the time of Justin's writing. BTW, he lived in the years 100-165 AD, long before the council in question. If you take the time to look it up you will find the answer quite interesting.
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT, thanks for that insight. Do you know where I could go to find primary source data on this work by Justin? I'm always looking for these kind of resources. Does anyone host it online?
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there are some who think GODS laws are obsolete by using hebrews 8:13. only the ceremonial sacrifical laws were. they were proformed by the high priest once a year by the sacrifical sacrifice of animals blood in atonement for the forgiving of sins. jesus became our blood sacrifice replacing that part of the ceremonial law once & for all. his shed blood for the remission(forgivenness) of everyones sins.read all of hebrews chapter 7,8, & 9 and you will see the whole picture.it was only a shadow of things to come ,hebrews 10:1.and some say we must do all laws i believe 613 is the number given . james 2:10 is talking about GODS 10 commandments here. the n.t. is full of the law jesus speaks of the law in math.23:37-40.the greatest law was what he was asked about? jesus said to him you shall love the lord your GOD with all your heart ,with all your soul, with all your mind .this is the first & great commandment.and the second is ,you shall love your neighbor as yourself. on these two commandments hang all the law & prophets ......the first 4 commandments are about GOD ...commandments 5-10 your neighbor thus fullfilling the 10 commandments of GOD
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Delores, there are two points I'd like to ask you to consider:
1. The book of Hebrews does not specify that ceremonial laws are being recognized differently than the rest of Torah.
2. The Torah itself says that you cannot take part and leave part. It is a unity. The covenant of Moses, the Torah and the Temple/Tabernacle are part of a unified revelation from God. James, Paul and Hebrews agree.
We must not try to impose on God what we want to believe about the Law. Romans 8 is very clear that there is a New Law that is granted with the New Covenant. (We are also given a New Temple - the bodily presence of the Holy Spirit). That New Law is the "Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus".
Learning the Torah, including the ten commandments, is profitable for the believer and even more so for the unbeliever (the Law / Torah is perfect). It is very profitable as a "schoolmaster" that brings us to Christ. But we must NOT be confused that being in Christ is the equivalent of being under law. Being in Christ is a higher level of relationship.
When I was focused on the Law, I was concerned about not doing bad things. So for instance, I worked at not stealing or lying against my neighbor; but once I became conscious of the new covenant and it's higher requirements, I realized that Jesus wanted me to "go the extra mile". So, now I am focused on blessing my neighbor.
You see the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus has truly set me free - and now I am no longer concerned with imperfection, but how I can live out the blessings of Christ to my neighbor - because I have embraced the New Covenant. Rather than trying to stop sinning against my neighbor, I want to find ways to love even my enemy. Rather than struggling to "have no other Gods", I am focused on actively seeking to know the one true God and then to live out the wonderous mercies that God puts into me.
We must not be fooled, as the Galatians were, by the notion that we ought to be under the Law (Torah). The Law can never make us perfect. Christ fills us with His Spirit, who is perfect.
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Christians do not celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday.
We do not celebrate the Sabbath on Sunday, for the Sabbath by virtue of its name alone is Saturday. Neither do we apply the sabbatical law to Sunday, the law given to the Israelites in the Old Covenant, and specifically through Moses. The fourth commandment was not adhered to prior to God giving it on Mt. Sinai. There is no record of Noah, Abraham, Isaac, or any of the Jews in Egypt kept the Sabbath prior to what is commonly called the “Mosaic Law.” Nor does it apply to the church in the New Covenant.
Scripture proof of Sunday meetings
Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2 tell us that they came together on Sunday, the first day of the week. There is no law given regarding Sunday worship, for in fact we are called to worship every day.
Of the Ten Commandments all are repeated in the N.T. except the 4th law. The omission is not coincidental. The law was not carried over.
Many state that Jesus and the disciples kept the Sabbath. Do not forget that there are two sides to the cross. Jesus came to fulfill the law and in order to do so He had to submit Himself to the law. If He had not kept the law prior to the cross He would have been disqualified as the Lamb of God who was without spot. After the resurrection we do not see one time that Jesus attended a Sabbath meeting, though He was with the disciples for several weeks.
We do see Paul going to the synagogue on Saturday. Why? We do not see that He was adhering to the Sabbatical law. What we do see is that He preached to those who did not believe in Jesus that he might reach them.
The Jerusalem Council (Acts 15)
If the Sabbath law applied to the Gentiles who were coming into the church then surely the Apostles would have clearly stated it. One of the greatest gatherings of church leaders in church history is found Acts 15. The surviving apostles were their including Peter. Jesus’ brother James, Paul and Barnabas were there. The subject was whether the Gentiles must be circumcised when they come to faith in Christ. The council discussed the issues and prayed about it. Their answer was one we need to note. They rejected the idea that Gentiles need to be circumcised. They went on to proclaim that they would not put on the necks of the Gentiles the very things that they themselves could not keep or live up to, not referring to circumcision, but rather the Law. They listed four things, none of which was Sabbath keeping. These are the pillars of the church that rendered their verdict. It is recorded in the Bible. The Bible never refutes their decision. To be sure that this was not an act of man the apostles tell us that after prayer it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us(them).
Did Some in the Early Church Worship on Saturday?
Often people refer to the discussion between Polycarp and the Bishop in Rome. Polycarp is reported to have gone to Rome to ask the Bishop not set the date for Easter on Sunday, but rather on the day of Passover. The two discussed the issue and both held to the teaching of their mentors. They parted friends and agreed to disagree.
Notice what was discussed. They were discussing the setting of the date of Easter, not whether one should celebrate Easter or not. The discussion did not include Sabbath keeping, but placing Easter on the Passover or on Sunday. Polycarp did not say he kept the Passover. Now to be fair, there is only one surviving letter authored by Polycarp, the Epistle to the Philippians. The above comes from his student Irenaeus.
Justin Martyr in what is called the “First Apology” clearly states that the church met on Sunday. In the “Dialogue with Trypho’s” he further states that there are some who choose to meet on Saturday. He has no problem with that unless they insist that all believers meet on Saturday for worship and that there is no special significance attached to Saturday worship. Again, there is no reference to keeping the Sabbatical law.
Therefore, can one worship on Saturday? There is no law against it. Are Christians compelled to keep the Sabbath? The answer in Scripture and through history is no.
BTW, many attribute to the 325AD Nicaea meeting as being the turning point on several issues (ie Sunday Worship , Easter, etc.). The discourse between Polycarp and the Bishop in Rome clearly teach us that these things were in existence and both Sunday worship and Easter were being observed in the time of Polycarp.
Lord Bless,
LT
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hello everyone, seems like we still disagree on alot of issues but what i was saying was if polycarp held the true traditions of the jewish passover on 14 nisan and did not keep the what we call the christian sunday on which jesus rose from the dead that some feel that his resurrection meant this was now the day that the the church was born ( the christian sunday) and proof of it why did not apostle john , polycarp, and other christians around jerusalem,smyrna,and areas around asia minor still keep( pascha) the jewish passover date as before jesus died. it did not change to them . the apostles still kept passover, feast of unleaven bread, pentecost, day of atonement, and vows of purity,as in acts after christ died? this same issue came up again with polycrates of ephesus with bishop victor of roman around 190 or so. thanks
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Polycrates letter to Victor in Rome was not a defense of the Sabbath, but an attempt to keep Easter from being moved to a Sunday and apparently away from the Day of Passover. He states that the Apostle John, Polycarp, others and himself keep the Day of unleaven bread (Passover). This simply means that they celebrated the passover on the 14th day of Nissan. There is nothing wrong with a Jew celebrating the memorial of God bringing the people of Israel up out of bondage. That is quite different from trying to maintain that Christians must obeserve the Sabbath. He does not even debate or refute the observance of Easter, but simply the date. Christians worshiping on Sunday instead of Saturday is not even addressed.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Delores, please explain your empirical sources for this statement:
"...the apostles still kept passover, feast of unleaven bread, pentecost, day of atonement, and vows of purity,as in acts after christ died..." (In other words, do you have proof of this claim?)
I believe that those who compel others to keep the Sabbath do what you have done in your statement: that is - focus on the death of Christ, rather than the resurrection. Christ is risen. He is not dead. The church began to understand that this was God's plan, for all of eternity prior to creation, after Pentecost.
Did they suddenly change all of their practices? Not exactly - but yes they did keep the first day of the week as the holiest day of remembrance. This is why the book of Hebrews was written - because the Jewish Christians wavered in their new identity as Christians - that is followers of Messiah Jesus, because of pressure from the Synogogue leadership; that very leadership which was corrupted.
Sabbatarians often try to except the ten commandments from the rest of the Torah. Torah itself, and the Apostles, tell you that you cannot do this. Torah is a unity; the temple, the covenant and the law go together. Ask any orthodox Jew. To break any part of it is to break it - period.
This fact left the Jews in the first century with a quandry. If you were faithful to Yahweh, you could not worship at temple, because it was led by a corrupted group (this is why the Essenes went into the deserts). If you believed that you had to worship at temple - you had a problem because of the corruption.
Into this mess steps Jesus who cleansed the temple. Notice that he did not reinstate the proper Mosaic/Levitical worship! He cast them out! He purged it! Then, at his crucifiction the veil was torn - complete wrent from top to bottom and the temple mount itself was cracked by an earth quake. About 39 years later, it was burned to the ground.
God was saying "the old covenant is done. Obsolete"
Now, no one is recommending that we change the Law - nor that we disobey the Law. It is clear that either of those is wrong. What the Apostles taught, very clearly, is that we are no longer under the law. Period.
That is not to say that we have a license to sin! God forbid! Rather, we have a higher calling! Jesus made it clear that his Kingdom is not about Law, but about abundant passion for God - in grace.
So, whereas you were told not to commit adultery, Christ says "do not look upon a woman with Lust". There is an implied change in the entire focus now!
We can take the implication that Jesus gave in that statement and apply it to all of the Torah. Christ is our Passover Lamb, Christ is our Sabbath rest and the body is the new temple. Furthermore, we no longer look at the Law that says "you shall have no other Gods before me" and spend our energy resisting idols - but rather, we spend all of our body, soul and spirit in adoration of our Great God and Savior - to serve his pleasure and plan! His passion has become our passion! Now, like Jesus, we desire to serve the will of the Father with all heart, soul, mind and strength!
Rather than being like the Pharisees, debating how far a man can walk on the Sabbath, we spend our lives resting in Christ and working to bring others into a state of rest in him - into his total and complete salvation that gives rest for our souls - we want to loose the slave of sin and heal the one broken by bitterness.
Focusing on Law can never set you, or anyone free. Focusing on the freedom in Christ does set you free. The man who walks down the road mumbling "I will not drink, I will not drink, I will not drink" winds up in the bar drunk, sooner or later. The many who loves sobriety cannot be forced into a bar, nor forced to get drunk for any reason, whether sorrow or celebration.
The man who loves Christ with all of his heart, who has been set free from sin, is at rest in his Savior. He is worshipping God alone and he is honoring his parents. That woman who loves Christ more than her own life is filled with so much joy that she cannot be tempted to commit adultery, nor to covet the riches of this present age - for she has set her desires on Jesus and she has stored her treasures in Heaven.
Those who focus on Law will be perpetually captive of temporal and external things, constantly being easily tempted and drawn into failure, "repenting" and weaping over their sins - or scornfully looking down their noses at those who lack as much "self-control" as they do. Yet, those who drink of the "rivers of living water" cannot thirst for the things of this world anymore - because their souls are filled with something that satisfies eternally.
You who think you keep the Law: do you think the Spirit-led person is tempted to worship idols? Bah!! Do you think Spirit-led person is tempted to live filled with hate and bitterness and wrath against those who wrong them? Bah!! Do you suspect that Spirit-led person is lie, steal or kill? Bah!! No, because Spirit-led person knows that Christ has fully partaken of the wrath, fully drank the cup of bitterness and fully endured all suffering for our sake! How could Spirit-led person ever love worthless things! How could Spirit-led person ever turn to pathetic idols!
Christ is my perfection, Christ is my Righteousness! Christ is my Law! I love him. I live for him. I delight in him. I desire nothing that would capture me away from him. And where I fall short, Christ is my atoning sacrifice - to fully cleanse my record of guilt and shame. No adherence to the Law can do that!
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