All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
The Sabbath
Why Are churches and congregations still think that it doesn't matter which day you worship the lord on?? Is it because they are blinded by self-righteousness or just plain arrogance??
One of the Lord's Commandments is, Not forget the sabbath, and to Keep it Holy. So why will they obey some of the commandments, yet disobey others??
It is by who keeps the Sabbath, that God will know who his children really are.
I would like to know what others think about what I have written.
Your Sister....Denise
One of the Lord's Commandments is, Not forget the sabbath, and to Keep it Holy. So why will they obey some of the commandments, yet disobey others??
It is by who keeps the Sabbath, that God will know who his children really are.
I would like to know what others think about what I have written.
Your Sister....Denise
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Thanks for the compliment. One thing I forgot to mention in the post is the picture that "Pentecost" draws from the Year of Jubilee. As you surely know - God uses numbers to remind us of his precepts; they are like special markers of the scenic overlooks on the highway of holiness to remind us of His incredible truths.
So... check this out: Fifty days after the Passover is Pentecost "the feast of first fruits". And the 50th year was the Year of Jubilee - the year where all debts are cancelled, all slaves are freed and all lost inheritances are returned.
So, the picture that we are given is not merely a "rest" of putting up our feet and not working, but a rest of "all things restored". This is what it means to be in Christ - it is to be a person living under the promise of a perfect restoration, to receive the lost inheritance as Children of God, as joint heirs with Christ Jesus, an inheritance which is "kept in Heaven for you".
Following Christ is soooo much more than keeping rules! He himself is our Shalom; He is our peace. As we contemplate His grace, it should be truly amazing.
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Permalink Reply by Ellen on
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The true Sabbath is Saturday. It's called in Hebrew Shabbot. The early followers all kept the Hebrew sabbath including Jesus, or Yeshua his real name. A few hundred years after his death, the Greek and Roman christians began to worship on Sunday because that was their pagan Sun-God day of worship. As the church grew more non Jewish believers brought in their pagan practices. I began keeping Shabbot a few years ago after the Lord opened my eyes to the special significance of keeping it. It is powerful because it is the time God said was Holy. That's not to say we can't worship God anytime, including Sunday, but there is NOTHING quite like keeping the true Sabbath, The Lord is awakening His church to our Hebrew roots, Shabbot, the feast days and the power of Torah in preparation for His return. Jews are coming to faith in Christ like never before, many famous Rabbis, and they are teaching christians the mysteries and power of the Hebrew Jesus and Torah. The Word Jesus lived and kept and said would never pass away.
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Permalink Reply by littlesheep88 on
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The Old Testment serves as a collection of books for our knowledge about God and what happened then and what we can learn from the mistakes of people who lived back then. It is also describes the old covenant. The New Testament serves as a new covenant through Jesus Christ. The sacrifices made in the old testament were for many reasons, but Jesus was the utimate sacrifice and we dont need to follow the old ways, God made it very simple for us through the shedding of His own son Jesus Christ. Everyday should glorify God and what He has done, what He is doing, and what He will do for us very soon!! He is awesome and should be worshipped everyday. He made the sabbath for us. It says in Ex 34:21 "Six days you shall labor, but on the seventh day you shall rest." Did He, God Almighty, Creator of the Heavens and the Earth really need to rest on the seventh day? No! He was teaching us how to live, how not to get burdened out, how to devout time apart for Him.
God Bless!
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Hi Littlesheep88,
Of course our salvation is based on grace through the finished works of Christ. I used to look at the OT the way you described too for years until the Holy Spirit opened my eyes through many hebrew scholors that Jesus and all His followers still kept the true sabbath and the feast days. We don't have to, but there is a tremendous blessing we receive when we do.
It should never be a burden, but it is a privledge.
Blessings
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Permalink Reply by washington odhiambo on
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the tue sabbath recorded in the bible the seventh day (SATURDAY) because even Jesus was buried on FRIDAYas sabbath was just nearing
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Washington, I would like to ask you to consider what I wrote earlier in this topic. Yes, you are right that Jesus was buried on sabbath - because the Hebrew day begins at sundown; therefore, even in death our savior fulfilled the law.
However, it is Christ who fulfilled the law - no one else. Christ alone has fulfilled the law.
We are under the law of the New Covenant (Romans 8) and as such we have been freed from the Old Covenant, an obsolete covenant (Hebrews 8:13), to celebrate the resurrection - that is the first fruits of the New Creation, by worshipping on the first day of the week as a regular memorial of the resurrection of Christ - the incarnate creator and the only savior.
Sabbath keeping is looking backwards. The New Covenant is looking forwards - anticipating the fulfillment of "better promises" (Hebrews 8:6).
Anyone who insists on keeping the law, is required to keep the "whole law" that is the "whole Torah". Instead, those who follow Jesus are under the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8).
[Before you respond to this, take a moment and read Galatians 3 and pay special attention to Galatians 3:10.]
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I have studied scripture for 30 years including an indepth doctrinal study on grace as described in the NT. As I have said in earlier comments, Salvation is a free gift by grace. Nothing but the finished works of Christ can provide that.
However I have had the Holy Spirit open my eyes as He is doing with millions of His church, the Torah is still for us to pay attention to today, in fact it is the most prophetic part of the scripture,and is being revealed for these days.
Jesus himself as well as all the disciples and early church, kept the true sabbath and the feast days as God instructed they be observed to all generations. God set apart the 7th day Period! We do not HAVE to keep God's Holy days , but there is a special blessing in keeping them.
We were never supposed to separate from the Hebrew traditions, but in the 3rd century the Romans (expagans) introduced their traditions to the church. Sunday worship, Christmas, and Easter.
When Jesus or the NT believers referred to the Word they were always referring to the Torah. The Holy Spirit and sound teaching is what is bringing new understanding and a joyful embrace to the secrets revealed in the Torah.
Even Jesus said "Heaven and earth would pass away, but not one jot or tittle of the Torah would pass away"
Christian have been mistaught for centuries that the OT is no longer applicable, Jesus is restoring truth, the whole truth.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Ellen,
The Gentiles were never expected to keep Hebrew traditions after coming to salvation in Christ as evidenced by the Acts 15 passage. They clearly are told they do not need to be circumcised. Paul clearly taught the difference in grace and law keeping in Galatians and in portions of Romans.
It is unfortunate that many free Christians are being led back into bondage by being instructed that they "must keep" the Law.
BTW, the Torah did not pass away, the Law did not pass away. it was fulfilled in and through Jesus.
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT,
It has been my experience that the christians that have had their eyes and heart open to the deeper meaning of the Torah are not at all in bondage. In fact they are freer than most non- torah observant christians. I say this as a counselor in a large evangelical church that saw hundreds of sincere, committed christians still struggling with hurts, addictions, the past in some way or another.
The believers I know who have reclaimed the Hebrew roots of the faith have been set free from much, for good.
As to us being Gentiles, 3,500 years ago, 10 out of the 12 tribes of Israel scattered into the nations and took up pagan practices. God prophesied in His Word He would one day rejoin the lost 10 tribes with the faithful tribes. At the same time millions of Jews are coming to faith in Christ as Messiah. The 2 are becoming one again, but it is not a Greek/Roman church that is becoming one, as Romans says, " Do not boast over the branches and pride yourself at their expense, if you boast and feel superior, remember it is not you that support the root, but the root that supports you"
Keeping the Hebrew roots of the faith is not bondage any more than going to church on Sunday, bible studies etc. We don't do those things to be saved, but because we are saved. It is the same for keeping the same practices Jesus himself kept. To not realize that is to point to how deep the Roman/Greek deception took over for centuries.
I merely speak to my own convictions as the Holy Spirit has led me. I support any follower of Christ pursuing Him with a whole heart whatever they understand that to be. I seek unity, not division.
Shalom
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There are some interesting presuppositions in your comment. I know a number of people who have had their eyes and heart opened to Jesus, are filled with the Holy Spirit, been freed from addictions and hurts while living under grace and not being bound to the law. The Torah did not set them free. Jesus did and continues to do so. You presume superiority for those who adhere to the Torah.
Regarding the Gentile believers refered to in Acts 15 it is the Bible, not me, that proclaims them as Gentiles.
BTW, what large evangelical church or denomination is returning to the observance of the Torah in totality, including the observance of the feasts and celebrations? Do they meet on the Sabbath instead of Sunday? Do they insist on circumcision?
I have one more question. Describe your view regarding the path to salvation and the process by which one retains salvation.
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT,
I believe the path to salvation is through grace, by faith in the shed blood of Yeshua, (Jesus' real name) His work on the Cross paid the penalty for sin once and for all ,and removed the separation between man and God.
I used to believe as you do what I was taught, that the OT was no longer for NT believers and was only a historical backdrop to show us how we can't keep the Law.
It is true we can't keep the Law perfectly, only Jesus did that. But there is more to the Torah than keeping all 613 Rabbitical Laws. I don't claim to keep every law, nor do I suggest you have to keep any to be saved.
Even 1 John 5:2,3 says, " For the love of God is this, that we keep His commandments and are mindful of His teachings" At the time that John wrote that he was referring to the Torah, there was no NT. Jesus and His followers didn't walk around with a KJV or NIV Bible, they were completely Jewish. Every reference to the Word in the NT was referring to the Torah and the Prophets. There was nothing else to refer to.
I know of thousands of Messianic communities that do in fact, meet on Saturday, keep the feasts days and most members have a traditional candle lighting Sabbot dinner on Friday night with family and friends. The Messianic movement is the fastest growing group of believers in the US right now and it is 75% non Hebrew believers returning to the roots of the Christian faith, 25% are Jews who have accepted Christ as Messiah but are staying true to their Hebrew traditions as Jesus did, not for salvation, but because there is no reason not to.
Most christians live their faith steeped in Roman tradition. It was not always that way. For 300 years NT believers attended Synagogue and kept all the Feast days. I would suggest to you that there is a tremendous blessing in keeping the Hebrew traditions, the deeper meaning of the Torah, and Hebrew in general.
Salvation is not dependent on it at all, but there is much more to it than an obsolete covenant.
Remember God set apart the Sabbath (Friday night sundown, to Saturday night sundown) as Holy long before He gave the Law to Moses. It must have been important to Him since it was His first instruction.
Ellen
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Ellen,
We are in agreement on the path of salvation based upon what you have written and that binds us as brother and sister in Christ. We disagree on other points that are less pertinent, but none-the-less valuable to our new life in Christ.
You misunderstand me and assume to know something about me from just a few lines. I am refering to your comment that I believe that the O.T. is only a backdrop. This is not true. I believe the principles are valid, yet in the fulfillment of the Law brought change regarding its application for us who are now in Christ who is the fulfillment of the law. There is a difference in stating that one seeks to keep the laws and one living by the godly principles outlined by the totality of God's Word. One cannot ignore the N.T. while striving to live by the O.T. or they will miss the freedom that is ours in Christ. One cannot ignore major passages in Romans and the Book of Galatians.
Regarding 1 John 5:2-3 you need to carry this on through verse 5. Christ is the fulfillment of the law and life of the believer. Regardng the N.T. not having been written. The teachings of Jesus were shared by the apostles and was spreading, thus there was the spoken words of Jesus. This is a common method in their era for teaching. Much was verbal. With that said we also know that 1 John was written later then many of the N.T. epistles and at least two of the gospels. If one required the written word in order to believe then the earliest believers would not have believed in the resurrection of Jesus until after the completion of the earliest portions of the N.T.. This simply is not the case. They taught and believed it from the time of Jesus' resurrection.
There is no question that Rome has had an influence on Christianity, but you assume to apply all the changes at around the time of Constantine, when this to simply is not true. The greatest changes, and godly changes, occured following the resurrection and the disciples minds being opened to the Scripture including the teachings of Jesus. Sunday worship did not wait to 300 A.D.. The Gentiles were not expected to keep the feasts or the Sabbath. Jews varied in their understanding and practice.
Regarding Jesus. Jesus was born Jewish under the law. That was the whole point. He lived by the law or He would have sinned and disqualified Himslef (if that were possible) from being the spotless Lamb of God. After the resurrection we do not see anywhere recorded that Jesus was in attendance at the synagogue on any Sabbath though He remained on earth for many Sabbaths. We also find that the term Sabbath only occurs twice in all of the N.T. apart from the gospels and the Book of Acts. Such an important doctrine would certainly have been addressed by Paul teaching the numerous Gentile Christians the importance and necessity of observing it since they were not brought up in Jewish ways if it were required of them.
You feel God has opened your eyes and I have been deceived and am living under a lie propogated by Rome. The deception you speak of could only be true if the N.T. were in error. I too have studied Scripture and church history for many years and examine the facts. I am aware of people, Gentiles, seeking to return to the law and am troubled by this and concerned for them and their inluence upon others. You see it as godly. I see it as dangerous. On this point we will not agree as you are not the first I have come across who takes your position.
You did not answer a previous question. What large evangelical church or denomination is returning to life under the Torah?
Lord Bless,
LT
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