The Providence of God, what is it?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 7, 2012 at 2:03pm

Chris, lately I have thought a lot about the prophet Isaiah and how his life ended. Why would God allow that to happen to his great prophet, and not only to Isaiah, but many others in Scriptures? Was it not part of God's plan? It had to be. Where was God's providence? It could not have been missing. Could it? As David said,

The providence of God has been viewed as the invisible hand of God in human events.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 7, 2012 at 12:28pm

It is ironic to me that most people, meaning humanind, want their freedom to do as they please ... that is until things go wrong and then they want to know where God was during the situation. God does not micromanage, but is free to interact and override our choices and the choices of others at any time. As a sovereign God He can give us liberties without threatening His overarching plan that is coming to pass. With forknowledge He is able to orchestrate all that He deems necessary and still leave room for our liberties to be exercised. We must not forget that we live in a fallen world, with fallen people, while still in the fallen flesh and yes there is an enemy that wars against us.

 

Satan has been given certain liberties as well. One way to describe his liberties is that he has constituted authority. He can act withing the parameters that God has established, and like humankind, God can override his actions at any time.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on November 7, 2012 at 1:04pm

19 You may ask me, “Then why does God still find fault with anybody? For who can resist his will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you—mere man that you are—to talk back to God? Can an object that was molded say to the one who molded it, “Why did you make me like this?” 21 A potter has the right to do what he wants to with his clay, doesn’t he? He can make something for a special occasion or something for ordinary use from the same lump of clay. 22 Now if God wants to demonstrate his wrath and reveal his power, can’t he be extremely patient with the objects of his wrath that are made for destruction? 23 Can’t he also reveal his glorious riches to the objects of his mercy that he has prepared ahead of time for glory. Rom 9: 19-23 We can find ourselves questioning God, even being angry with Him. That is why I believe it is so important we first, know, stand on, and trust that He Loves us. With a Love we will not fully understand until we are with Him in Heaven. To begin with Love, then allow Trust. We may not know why things happen the way they do. Yet, with Love and Trust from and in Him, we are able to accept; receive the events that unfold in our life. If we are able to one day, let go of the idea of “good or bad” things, and simply see them as part of His Plan. That may make things easier. Yet, as for me I am not sure I am even close to that place. Perhaps, starting with, “...Your Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven...” is a good place to begin.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 7, 2012 at 1:10pm

Amen! The best place to begin is with "Your will be done ..."

 

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 7, 2012 at 1:15pm

LT,

I read through the full article you posted and I have trouble reconciling with it the statement that God doees not micromanage. It says "God is in complete control of every molecule in the universe at every moment, and everything that happens is either caused or allowed by Him for His own perfect purposes."

 

As an all-knowing and all seeing God, He does allow liberties and yet has included all of those choices in His over all plan even though many of those choices were man's will and not within God's will for man. To me, that is micromanaging. I posted stats for violent crimes in the USA -- that does not include all the violent crimes in other nations, nor does it include lesser crimes that are not really considered violent or unreported crimes that may or may not be violent. Did any of them catch God by surprise? No.

 

If God knows the very number of hairs on our head and sees every sparrow that falls in this world, how is He not micromanaging all things?  

 

There are many people who have lost children andother loved ones to violent crimes or have been hurt themselves and they are trying to understand God's will. They are trying to understand human behavior. They are seeking answers. It can make people really struggle in their faith. We will come into contact with such people and we want to tell them truths about God and God's love. So this is a great discussion IMO to be able to help them. The providence of God.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 7, 2012 at 1:19pm

Does control mean micromanage to you? To me there is a difference in having absolute control and being the causation of every thing that happens. His absolute control enables Him to give us liberty without fear of corrupting His ultimate plan.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 7, 2012 at 1:50pm

Control can go to the point of micromanaging. So is God in full control and complete control or has God given up some control to man and fallen angels?

I am not sure if God micromanages. I am wondering if God does.

The truth still remains that if God wanted to stop those violent crimes, He could and has the power, and one day will stop all violence. So is He micromanaging all of it? It seems so. His will is to allow it for now. But when I worked for hospice, I would never tell anyone it was God's will that they be sick or tell a grieving person it was God's will that their loved one died. It seemed harsh and seemed to hurt the faith of people.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 7, 2012 at 2:05pm

God has not given up any control. He has allowed us liberties and these fall completely under His control. Satan has been given constituted authority, but is still under God's complete control. He is managing, but does not need to micromanage. He is not the causation of every event.

 

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 7, 2012 at 4:27pm

But then there are those who feel that, even when God didn't cause something but merely allowed it, the fact that He didn't step in and not allow it must mean they are being punished. We know there are no pat answers to pain and suffering. God is all powerful and God is love. Some people use that knowledge as a coping mechanism and then when the unthinkable happens ... their faith suffers. They felt protected from harm and were actually wrong for feeling safe. Then you are dealing with someone who is struggling with their beliefs about God. My desire is to help such people. Always was and always has been but especially after I was there in it and experiencing it. I thought surely after everything I'd already been through, God would keep me safe now. Sometimes we have to accept what we can't possibly understand.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 7, 2012 at 5:07pm

This goes back to my previous statement. People, in general, want to have freewill (liberties) to live their life and make choices, etc. They do not want a God who controls every aspect of life, but when something goes wrong they unknowingly revert and blame God for not intervening and being in control, perceived control, by fixing the problem. They want God to trump the other person's freewill or to change the circumstances ... at least till all is calm and they can go back to making choices and put God back in His box until the next emergency comes along. God does not operate according to what we think. He is sovereign, is in complete control and at the same time has allowed mankind to have liberties. The use of these liberties can be abused and misused. People mistreat people and do horrible things one to another. The enemy has constituted authority and can have certain affect on our lives.

 

To feel protected is a discussion all by itself. How many missionaries have been killed while serving God. Did God let them down? No! What glory for God came from their deaths? There are so many so called tragedies that God has used for His glory and has drawn multitudes of people to Himself through these so called tragedies. The one who dies goes home to be with Jesus. The one who survives an abuse has a testimony of God's love, grace and forgiveness to share with others once they have healed, like my wife who was abused for many years as a child and was able to heal to a level where she forgave the perpetrator. 

 

We live in a fallen world with wicked people ... bad things will continue to happen until the end comes. God told us that we would have trials and tribulations. He told the 11 that they would be persecuted and according to church history 10 of the original 11 were killed for their faith. God also told us that things will get worse before the end comes. The person who thinks they will experience a perfect life without challenge and trials is lying to them self. We can have perfect peace and assurance in Jesus, but in this world we will have tribulation.

 

Have no fear, the Book of Revelation will come to pass and all of the prophecies God has made will be fulfilled. We do not have a weak or uncaring God, but rather a God who has set His plan into action and it will be fulfilled. He judged Adam and Eve and expelled them from the garden. This same God sent His Son to redeem lost man.

 

Lastly, this life isn't it. This physical life is but a vapor, but life in His presence for eternity is the true life we are to fully experience. It is sad to recognize that most Christians fear death. What does that say about their faith in Jesus and the afterlife. Too many put way too much value on this life. I am ready to go home, but will serve until He comes or calls for me, because the life we now live in the flesh belongs to Him as believers.

 

People spend a lot of energy looking for rhyme and reason to what has hapened to them, especially at the hands of other human beings. The answer often is no more than a wicked person did a wicked thing ... no rhyme ... no reason, just life in a fallen place. Mankind had the Garden of Eden, will have the new heaven and new earth, but for now we have the fallen world because of sin.

 

Lord Bless,
LT

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 7, 2012 at 5:21pm

I know you speak from experience and wisdom. I just wonder why we often say it is putting God in a box when someone knows God is all powerful and all loving and sometimes does step in and prevents catastrophes and other times does not, sometimes does heal, and other times does not, and the person is struggling to understand these things and this life as much as possible.

Perhaps you are among those who never struggled this way in your faith and praise the Lord that He kept you from that struggle. Others are going through it though. Even if we think it is soooo wrong for them to do so, they still go through struggles in their faith and with certain beliefs and it is very important how we approach them, so as not to further push them away from God, and belittle them for having such weak faith and misbeliefs about God, but to disciple them about the truth. IMO

Thanks, as always, for your reply. It is very appreciated and always full of much needed insight.

PS Maybe some people do want God to control every aspect of their lives and they are trusting Him to do what is best for them and their loved ones. So when the wicked thing happens, it can ve very devastating for such a person who believes God micromanages.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 7, 2012 at 5:30pm

You said:

The person who thinks they will experience a perfect life without challenge and trials is lying to them self. We can have perfect peace and assurance in Jesus, but in this world we will have tribulation.

I totally agree and it is called denial and is a coping mechanism for those who can't face the truth yet.

I am sorry about your wife and happy that she healed and forgave the perpetrator. Thank you for sharing.

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