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spiritual warfare and deliverance ministry
Have you ever wondered why it is that so few believers know more than just a little about how to stand against the devil and his demons? For one thing, most churches do not teach about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or the gifts of the Spirit which is the power of God in our lives to handle spiritual warfare. So, that eliminates most believers right there. But even for those who are taught the Baptism in the HS and spiritual warfare, very few churches have in depth teaching on what spiritual warfare is and how to stand against the enemy. Most church goers in churches that do teach somewhat on this subject, look to the pastor to be the one to run the devil off. But where does it say anywhere in the Bible that only the pastor or the church leaders have the empowerment to fight spiritual forces? Doesn't it say that all believers are empowered to stand against the enemy?
I was once in a church and a man that came to a service was truly demon possessed and began to act-out right in the middle of the church service in front of everyone. Guess what happened? 99% of the church members ran out the back door of the church as fast as they could run lol! I'm laughing because I never forgot that as it made such an impression on me that day. But in seriousness, it's not funny. The question is, why does the average believer know so little about spiritual warfare?
I know some believe that we just need to focus on Jesus and not be concerned with what the devil is doing, that Jesus will take care of him. And I agree that we don't need to be looking for a demon under every bush. When ppl sin it is not the devil that made them do it although many like to joke that it was- no ppl sin when they are drawn away through their own lusts- they choose it.
But on the other hand, we are told in the Word not to be ignorant of the devil and his devises. In my opinion it seems like most believers are woefully under taught how to stand on the Word when it comes to spiritual warfare and I am sure that is just the way satan likes it. I mean most believers are afraid to even utter the name of the devil, it's like they pretend he doesn't even exist. It is one thing not to say his name in order to bring undue attention to him and to instead bring more attention to the Lord. But it is another thing to be afraid of him and not know how to stand in spiritual warfare against him and his demons.
So, I don't think there will be any great knowledge extended in answer to my post since most of us are pretty much in the same boat on this topic, but just wondering if anyone has anything to share as to personal experiences they've had when it comes to spiritual warfare or why they think we as the Church aren't more prepared to stand against the wiles of the enemy?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Could you elaborate, LT? I am confused about what you mean by demonic activity and deliverance. Is deliverance for the oppressed or just the possessed, or both? Does God sometimes use oppression as a discipline? Does oppression sometimes happen as it seems in the case of Job as a lesson to teach the devil something and not necessarily the fault of the person for sinning or disobeying God? Can't we trust God to lift the oppression when He deems it is appropriate?
The possessed certainly need deliverance. How can you tell one from another? It does take true discernment. IMO
Why are the oppressed condemned instead of defended?
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Amanda,
I am confused about what you mean by demonic activity and deliverance.
Demonic activity is the manifestation of demonic beings or their power in a way that there is interaction between human and demonic including possession, oppression and other external activity. Deliverance in this context means the subduing and removal of demonic beings.
Is deliverance for the oppressed or just the possessed, or both?
Deliverance deals with exercising the authority given to us in Christ over the demonic forces. In the name and authority of Jesus they must submit up to the level of our authority (Our authority is subject to the will and plan of God) and faith. We must be sure that we are walking in the name and authority of Jesus when we attempt to confront such forces so as to not end up like the seven sons of Sceva (Acts 19). This is serious business and not to be taken lightly or attempted by the unprepared or unsure. Keep in mind that the authority is great, but limited. We can drive back the darkness in Jesus name, but will not destroy it. We may clear a path or squelch their plans, but that does not mean that they will never come back. In fact the Bible warns us of cleaning and house and leaving it empty for the demon will return with more even worse than the original one. The answer to this is the salvation of the individual so that the house has the Holy Spirit dwelling within.
Does God sometimes use oppression as a discipline?
Based on Judges 9 and 1 Samuel 16 the answer would be yes, though some debate the meaning of these text.. Based on Job’s life we recognize that God allows it at times. We know that God used nations to chastise the nation of Israel several times. God can use whatever means He wishes to accomplish His task. Even Paul was buffeted by a messenger from Satan, and in this case God’s will trumps our authority. In such cases we trust God and His plan as His will and plan trump our limited authority.
Does oppression sometimes happen as it seems in the case of Job as a lesson to teach the devil something and not necessarily the fault of the person for sinning or disobeying God?
I cannot speak to whether God is still trying to teach Satan a lesson or not, but this time surely taught Job a great lesson about Job and because life isn’t all about me, or in this case Job, his life teaches us a great lesson.
Can't we trust God to lift the oppression when He deems it is appropriate?
Can God lift the oppression at anytime? Yes. But, we also know that God could reveal the gospel to every person, but has chosen to use the church to take the gospel to the world, and thus we also see that God has commissioned us to engage in spiritual warfare which includes engaging demonic forces at times head on. If we are to assume that we are to only wait on God then all the commands and directives that tell us to cast out demons would be pointless.
The possessed certainly need deliverance. How can you tell one from another? It does take true discernment. IMO
I have a simple belief on this. A born again believer cannot be possessed. Thus, when dealing with family members who are under demonic attack it is always oppression. The unregenerate can be either or both. The discernment is truly needed in the beginning to determine if there are truly demons present or simple some other factor that comes from the result of living in a fallen world.
Why are the oppressed condemned instead of defended?
This statement is broad and not accurate. Some people will condemn them, some will defend them. It depends on the principals involved.
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I hope my reply won't be seen as argumentative or disruptive or acting out or hassling you or heckling you.
In your message, which you posted about the armor of God, you said (as an extra additive) that you think the angels are still learning lessons, too, and the highest angel fell. In the Book of Job, satan tells God why he thinks Job worships God. It is accusations against Job. Job 1: 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
Job did not curse God as satan thought he would. God proved to satan that God was indeed not wrong about Job when God said: “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” (verse 8)
That’s why I asked you about that. Satan doesn’t know everything.
Isaiah 1:17 says, Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow. (NIV)
It does happen. I realize not everyone does it but it is damaging when it happens--that the oppressed are not defended or encouraged but judged and condemned.
At any rate, as someone going through trials and troubles, I have been judged and condemned by several people. I have also been defended. I am not sure if my battle has been oppression. I have talked with two ministers person to person and both did not discern anything except hurt and a broken heart. Yet, over the internet people tell me they discern oppression.
I just know that it has been a terrible experience and I do not even trust anyone anymore.
You said God is bringing us through a process and we should thank Him for that process.
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Amanda,
I hope my reply won't be seen as argumentative or disruptive or acting out or hassling you or heckling you.
Leave me alone ... you are bothering me .... hahaha!!! I have never said that to you or anyone else, well ... maybe my wife :-) You have questions ... feel free to ask!!!
In your message, which you posted about the armor of God, you said (as an extra additive) that you think the angels are still learning lessons, too, and the highest angel fell. In the Book of Job, satan tells God why he thinks Job worships God. It is accusations against Job. Job 1: 9 “Does Job fear God for nothing?” Satan replied. 10 “Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But now stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face.”
Job did not curse God as satan thought he would. God proved to satan that God was indeed not wrong about Job when God said: “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.” (verse 8)
Regarding Satan in this instance I think it was more about the accuser being the accuser. That is what he does. Did he learn that Job stood the test? Yes, but was that God’s purpose? As I said I cannot speak to whether God is still trying to teach Satan lessons. Even if He is the enemy is not teachable ...
I do believe that angels are still learning lessons.
That’s why I asked you about that. Satan doesn’t know everything.
Satan is a very limited being in both power and knowledge.
Isaiah 1:17 says, Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow. (NIV)
It does happen. I realize not everyone does it but it is damaging when it happens--that the oppressed are not defended or encouraged but judged and condemned.
The goal of Christians should always be the well being of others. The church needs to take the position of being a hospital for the hurting.
At any rate, as someone going through trials and troubles, I have been judged and condemned by several people. I have also been defended. I am not sure if my battle has been oppression. I have talked with two ministers person to person and both did not discern anything except hurt and a broken heart. Yet, over the internet people tell me they discern oppression.
Over the internet is not the best place to make such judgments.
I just know that it has been a terrible experience and I do not even trust anyone anymore.
You said God is bringing us through a process and we should thank Him for that process.
Yes, and that includes both the good and the bad, even when it does not make sense to us.
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Well, if it's OK to have this conversation, then I want to ask this:
Is it safe to say that if a demon is behind every illness, every trial, every negative emotion, every time an internet page fails to load or a message doesn’t get sent or every time someone’s emotions get the best of them and they cry or say angry words or feel overwhelmed or experience mood swings or even allow their feelings to control them because somebody said something hurtful so they strike back, then are all of us oppressed and need daily deliverance?
Sometimes you just need to believe others can understand your pain without telling you it is foolish or silly or unusual or not worth grieving over or you are silly for feeling this way or you have a demon or you must not be saved or you don't have enough faith... You just feel so alone when no one seems willing to even listen because they think your experience should be resolved the same way their’s was resolved--by instant healing or something else that worked for them. It may be true that they have experienced a similar thing and felt ready to move on in a matter of weeks…but that isn’t true for everyone. Some require more time. That’s not evil, is it? Everyone’s experience is different.
When people make me feel silly for what I am going through, or make me feel responsible for it, I just don’t even want to confide in them anymore. So I do ask them to leave me alone--they make it worse.
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Amanda,
As stated, I do not believe that there is a demon behind every issue. Thus, I cannot respond to that portion of your post.
I also believe that we all heal at different rates and in different ways. No one can push a person to heal, but we can encourage and seek to help as much as we can when we can.
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LT, I am having trouble today. Everyone has been coming at me with so many different points of view that I don't know what to believe anymore. I think I don't believe anymore. Most seem to want to tell me that my depression is a mental illness caused by a demon. The Lord has not shown to me it is oppression or possession. In fact I had reached a point where I was assured that I am saved, that God has not cast me away. Yet the depression remains. I have prayed and fasted. I have read the Bible and asked for prayers. I've sought Christian counseling. I've talked with two ministers who prayed with me but neither discerned a demon. My depression does not lift. Is that what spiritual warfare is? It looks like it would lift if I truly needed deliverance since people have been praying and since I have been praying. Does it mean I need more faith because I have been low on faith? Does it mean I am not one of the elect? Many would convince me that this could be true. When I was 16 I did receive Jesus by faith and saw my sin and felt conviction for it and asked forgiveness. I have in my life had a relationship with Jesus. It must be that we can lose our salvation. I am not healed of my depression. It must mean I am lost. I am really tired of being depressed. My depression causes poor sleep. I know I look bad. I can't help it though. It really hurts me when people say I am not a child of God based on how bad my eyes look or how depressed I am.
I really am very discouraged today.
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Amanda,
My advice is to stop paying so much attention to what people think and focus in on what God says about you.
Make a list about what God says about a born again person and then insert your name in that list as the born again.
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Excellent, my dear friend. I am so glad you have returned to AAG :-)
Lord Bless,
LT
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Everyone,
I have two questions:
Can someone who is born again become demon possessed?
Is it an evil thing to be oppressed?Many say that Saint Paul was oppressed, referring to his thorn.
Many say King David was oppressed, referring to the psalms of sadness and hurt.
Many say Job was, because God permitted satan to touch all Job had but not take his life.
Many say King Saul was, for his pride and sin.
Many say Jesus was oppressed, referring to Isaiah 53 and the temptations in the wilderness. In Isaiah 53 it says, “Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering, yet we considered him punished by God, stricken by him, and afflicted” (verse 4). When I read that verse I see that Jesus took up our pain and bore our suffering by choice and yet they saw Him as being punished by God.I think God discerns clearly and in love but we are human and we aren’t always able to do that and we can hurt people a whole lot this way.
I took social work and psychology in college and I have had 20 plus years of taking care of the sick, elderly, handicapped, mentally ill, terminally ill, and you name it. Not every medical illness--and yes depression and many other mental illnesses are medical illnesses--is caused by a demon. Sometimes a person is being disciplined by God (as King David was and even King Saul) but even that is a private matter between the afflicted person and the Holy Spirit.
In the case of discernment what God has shown me is one important thing: people who are truly demon possessed have an aversion to Christ. Mentally and medically ill people who know Christ want help and seek help and seek God.
In the New Testament, demons cause epilepsy, deafness, blindness, muteness, and suicidal feelings but it is not right to say it is demons in all modern cases of these problems. Some of these problems are due to the central nervous system and disorders in the brain and even in the formation of the brain from birth to adult. A very neglected baby will have problems with brain development from not getting proper care and love and nutrition. Some of these problems are biological in nature.
I accepted Jesus and trusted Him as my Savior when I was 16. I saw my sin and I felt convicted and I saw Him as my Redeemer. I haven’t had any time of deep rebellion against God in my life and I’ve never turned to the occult or became addicted to drugs or alcohol. I’ve never been arrested. I have sinned and went through a time in my 20's when I wasn't in God's will and was out of church and married someone who wasn't saved. He has accepted Christ and been a Christian since 2000. My son is also saved. I’ve lived a peaceful life. I have had works--good works. I am not meaning to boast but just sharing my testimony. I have had Christian poems published in Christian magazines and devotions published in the Upper Room and Christian articles published in newspapers. I worked almost seven years for Hospice and always shared the love and peace of Jesus with anyone who was open to receiving it. Some were not open to it but many were.
I just wanted to say that if we have eternal security and we are saved and have never doubted it before but then we get to a place where in our trials and tribulations we lose faith and hope and are filled with doubts, does it mean you have become demon possessed? Or could it mean something else?
One thing I am learning out of all of this is that people may not intend to attack those who are going through a terrible spiritual battle (that may not even have anything to do with demons but just may be from having had things happen to them caused by fallen man) but sometimes when they say the things they say or make certain suppositions, it can hurt--especially when they don’t know the full story and yet they think that they are discerning, when actually they are judging someone based on actions, words, and behaviors or a look or something else.
But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7.
Some people just have a broken heart.
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Sometimes the hand gets bitten because the reaching out is taken as a harm and not as a help. Again judgment. So, you are learning the same lesson. I know I have been on both sides of it. I am at a place now where I believe less and less in true love and understanding. Mostly because I don't have it anymore for others. I don't trust anyone anymore.
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