All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
S.O.A.P. 6
Greetings all,
I will continue to try something on TheNET. I would like to see if we can engage in a Bible study using the forums. I hope to simulate a small group setting, but realize that there will be lag time. Here are the parameters that we will work with ... and this is open to everyone.
1) We are attempting to work our way through the gospel of John.
2) We will not tolerate negative comments made about a person or persons.
3) We are using the S.O.A.P. approach which = Scripture - Observation - Application - Prayer.
... 3a) Scripture text from the Gospel of John using KJV (no copyright attached)
... 3b)Observations about the particular text. What is being said, what is going on, who is involved and what might be the points being made?
... 3c) Application of the text/teaching to our lives today.
... 3d) Prayer pertaining to that which we have sought to discern.
4) It is appropriate to ask questions along the way.
5) I operating as the facilitator and teacher of this online group/class, but want the open participation of others.
6) At the end of each week (Friday's) I will close the current one and start a new one.
This weeks discussion:
Joh 3:10-21 KJV Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? (11) Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. (12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? (13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (14) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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The area doesn't matter. He will show Himself faithful to those who need trust mended where in provision or protection just as He promised to go before His chosen time and again and they saw their enemies defeated.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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All of creation stands condemned since the fall. It is interesting to note that when Satan and the angels who rebelled with him fell only they were judged. When man fell all of creation was affected and is under condemnation. A simple example of God's judgment and His timeline can be viewed as follows:
God knew that man would fall, but the condemnation did not occur until in real time (time that God created) the event took place. The penalty was in place for the failure that would happen, but it had to happen in real time before the judgment was executed, for Adam walked with God in the Garden of Eden. This action brought judgment that proclaimed man guilty and warranting death. The judgment has stood since the fall. One day in the future the full sentence will be carried out. Thus, judgment has been proclaimed and sentencing is yet to be fully executed. Between the two events (condemnation and sentencing) the gospel stands as man's only hope to be saved from the pending wrath (execution of the sentence). If man believes (receives Jesus) he is brought from death to life and no linger stands under condemnation.
Lastly, it is beyond our ability to fully comprehend how God can know the future to the very last minute detail and yet allow life to flow through the timeline one moment at a time. Though He knows the beginning from the end He allows us to walk through this life. Some will find Him others will not. The ones who find Him go from death to life ... the others remain spiritually dead awaiting final sentencing. Those who receive Christ find life that includes redemption, pardon and adoption.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Yes, I understand all of this. In essence, then, for some there really is and never was any hope -- the ones who never hear the gospel -- but for the others, is there still hope, or is God already carrying out the sentence (e.g. handing them over to believe false doctrines and false gospels from which they will never return)?
My view has been that all who believe upon Jesus and receive Him will be saved -- they have been awakened by God and made spiritually alive, which I've mentioned many times on AAG -- and all those who reject Him remain condemned and spiritually dead. About the rest - the ones who never hear the gospel and the babies who are aborted, still born, and children who die before the age of accountability -- I don't know with certainty, but since all are spiritually dead due to the fall, only in God's mercy and grace would they be spared from hell IMO, but I still must say I don't know.
I know Jesus preached repentance. I know we should warn people of their lost state and need for salvation and we should preach repentance. It upsets me to hear messages that offer only the side of condemnation but not the hope of salvation. Yes, people are born spiritually dead and destined for hell. I don't really want to get into the realm of discussing that some were created to be vessels of mercy and others weren't. I've never accepted that the atonement is limited but realize my belief could be wrong. Those who do accept it, IMO, often seem to have no problem preaching condemnation without still offering the hope of the gospel. I've been reading many things that tell me I have no right to judge anyone's eternal destiny. So, at this point, I don't know who is right. Thanks for replying.
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Then there is the other side of the coin ... preachers and others who teach only that God loves them and ignore the reality of sin and the call to true biblical repentance. Our lostness, His love and grace are all part of the same message, but too often people focus on only one side or the other. The church is plagued (IMO) with this one side or the other mentality on way too many issues. This one sided mentality causes more division, when often we find in God's economy that two things can both be true and coexists making up the whole and not just a part (I.e. God is sovereign and we have liberties).
To your last point. Depends on what is meant by "judge anyone's eternal destiny." A part from Christ all are lost ... that is the Word of God and a sound judgment that is within the realm of a child of God to proclaim. The lost who never hear the gospel (based on God's Word (ref. Romans 10)) remain in the spiritually dead state they were physically born into. That is also within the realm of a child of God to proclaim. We do not have the right to pass final judgment that brings about the sentencing. That is Jesus' to do, but we know the difference between what brings life and what causes a person to remain dead spiritually.
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I agree. It bothers me when condemnation alone is preached. The gospel of Jesus, His death, burial, and resurrection, should be preached along with the warning of the coming wrath and the lost condition of man, always together.
We don't know hearts. So how can we say that someone will receive the sentence of life instead of death, or vice versa? We can look at fruit and works and obedience but in the end we just don't know IMO. Yes, all are condemned unless they receive Jesus and become new creations, but, like the thief on the cross, who received Jesus in his dying hours, and had no fruit or works to take with him to Paradise, how can we know what God is doing in the last hours or moments of a life? That's what I mean.
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We cannot judge the heart, but we can present the message. I come from the POV that you never assume some one is saved just because they say they are saved. Thus, if a life is out of alignment with God you preach the truth (both sides of the coin). If some one appears to be in alignment with God you preach the truth (both sides of the coin), because one can fake it for a season. Regarding the thief on the cross (I know you don't mean the following, but will include this for clarity) we can praise Jesus that he made it, but the other side of the coin is he almost missed salvation. In addition I would add two things. 1) He heard the message and saw it lived out before him. 2) The Bible tells us that he repented (implied) and that he was saved ... this is the rarity, not the norm. I am confident (my opinion) that most who hear the message earlier in life and wait until the last minute to make a profession are only fooling themselves and reaching out for hope, not Christ, because during their life they rejected Him, but now at death's door they do not love Him, but rather fear death.
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I've heard testimonies of people who repented minutes before dying, as in the 9/11 attacks, and all I can say is that I don't know so I'm not going to say either way. I'll let God judge. If it's wrong to comfort a grieving family that their rebellious child is in heaven because the child repented and turned to Jesus at a young age but then stepped away and died while in that rebellion, then it's just as wrong to say you know the child is in hell. We can say, I trust he made it because he believed in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus as far as we know, but that's all we know isn't it?
I think many of us who make it will be genuinely surprised when we see who is and who isn't there.
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And many make the mistake of proclaiming one or the other. False hope is another word for a lie. All we can truly say is that based on their profession of faith we have reason to hope that they are in heaven. If there was no profession of faith known to us then we have reason to believe they are not in heaven, but time will bear this out. There are others whom we may have known for years and in these cases our hope is more sure that they are saved because of the life lived out that included a love for their Savior.
This goes back to my favorite question to ask anyone anymore. I like to ask "Do you love Him?"
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This goes back to my favorite question to ask anyone anymore. I like to ask "Do you love Him?"
Had you asked me that early on though, I don't know that I'd have known the answer. I wasn't even sure I knew what real love was. I could've said I love what He did, the life He led, that He could change me into something better who could be a blessing to others instead of always looking to try and fill some inner void.
Jesus actually has had to teach me how to love and trust. I actually surprised myself when praying as I fell asleep one night and finding myself telling the Lord I loved Him. And that's grown daily. -
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Yes, but you have grown in love towards Him ... no? You did not remain the same.... that is the point. If a person claims to walk with Jesus for years and cannot tell me they love Him I question whether they have ever truly met Him.
The question also causes people to look within to search out the answer because we know that love for Him is essential in the process.
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