Revelation 13:16

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 24, 2012 at 7:17am

Greg,

 

One cannot rightly deny that we will be snatched away or caught up. One can disagree on the time of this event (ie pre, mid, post).

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 24, 2012 at 7:09pm

For two thousand years each Christian generation has grown in grace and knowledge, shared the gospel and died in the flesh turning the mission over to the next generation without any of those generations living in or through the Great Tribulation.

 

Who is God's main focus in the tribulation period, the church or Israel?

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 26, 2012 at 4:51am

It is Israel as God returns to His plan with Israel once the church age (age os the Gentiles) is over. There are some who teach replacement Theology, which believes that the church has replaced Israel as the chosen people ... I don't agree.

 

For me, in order for eschatology to make sense God has to literally fulfill His promises to the nation of Israel and this takes place when the 70th week unfolds and finds its complete fulfillment in the millennial period.

 

It appears that there will be multitudes who come to faith in the millennium. We know that there will be the 144,000 and others who will be martyred. One of the conflicts on this topic arises from the understanding that the Restrainer (Holy Spirit) will be taken out of the way and evil will pretty much have free reign for a season. The error arises because many think that removing the Restrainer means that the Holy Spirit personally will be removed from the earth. This is not possible because God is omnipresent. He is everywhere at all times. The removal of the Restrainer simply means His holding back of evil will cease, but He will still be here and is still God.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 30, 2012 at 5:27pm

Michelle,

 

Eschatology means the study of the endtimes.

 

In Revelation 7 it says that there will be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes and it lists the tribes by name. Taking this at face value there is no other alternative, but that they are all Jews.

 

I try to be ultra-cautious when dealing with the endtimes. It is very easy to get carried away when studying and if not careful find one's self going beyond what is written and applying things to terms or sections based on bias or because someone said it. Thus, many end up reading into Scripture instead of seeking to draw out what God actually meant ... which is all that really counts anyway.

 

It appears that Gentiles will be saved in the tribulation period, I am confident that Jews will be saved as we recognize that the church age had concluded and God is then concluding the 70th week during the tribulation. Even this is some what debatable as there are at least a half a dozen strong views out there. Thus, I will say that this is my understanding of it.

 

I like studing end times, but there is so much, IMO, that cannot be known until the events are actually unfolding. A friend of mine uses the term "Pan-eschatologist" when refering to himself and what he believes. He says that to express that the end under God's sovereign will it will all "pan" out in the end ... :-)

Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 30, 2012 at 9:37pm

LT, I have a question, or two. I am confused about the 7 last plagues. Are they the wrath of God to be poured out on the wicked?

If it were to happen that the church must go through tribulation and then is raptured out near the end of the 7 years right before the wrath of God is poured out, then will the Restrainer have been removed by then or will that happen after the rapture?

In the case of no one being left behind then except for those whom the wrath of God will fall upon, then no one will be saved after the rapture--that is if the rapture is post-trib and takes place at the end of the 7 year period.

Many will be born again then during the 7 years of tribulation before the rapture. That would mean many of Israel would find and accept Jesus as Messiah as well during the tribulation. But this would mean no one is saved after the rapture. I am not sure how long it will take God to pour out His wrath on the wicked. It is said that after each plague, no one left alive repents but curses God more.

"But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor walk. And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts" Rev 9:20-21.

Those who do not repent but who are not killed by the plagues, are they the rest of Israel? Or just various inhabitants around the world?

What about the Jews who have died from the time of Christ until now without being born again? Is there any hope for them? Or is the remnant of Israel just those who happen to be alive during the final 7 years and repent and those who survive the plagues but do not repent? Or, will all Israel be saved?

Answer only what you feel comfortable with answering, and I understand if you do not answer. Thanks.

 

Permalink Reply by Amanda on January 31, 2012 at 10:04am

I was also reading a different POV regarding who the restrainer is in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-8. This POV says that it isn't the Spirit. In some way it deduces that the restrainer is actually restraining the Lord Jesus from returning to earth by not revealing himself--he being the "lawless one" and my feeling about that POV is how could satan be in that much control of endtime events?

The POV that says the Restrainer is the Spirit holding back evil and even when evil is no longer being restrained people will still be able to be regenerated and given the new birth is my current POV. It accounts for why there will be great tribulations and that many will still come to Jesus during that time. Others say once the church is raptured, no one can be born again because the church age ends but people will still be saved without being born again. I don't see how that is possible but have an open mind about it. I have a dear friend who is Jewish and she refuses to accept Christ and my hope is for all Israel to be saved and that even if she dies without accepting Jesus is the Messiah, I hope God will save her soul and give her a chance to get to know Jesus either in heaven or during the thousand years reign of Christ on earth. God has made promises to Israel that He has not made to other nations...

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 2, 2012 at 5:24am

LT, I have a question, or two. I am confused about the 7 last plagues. Are they the wrath of God to be poured out on the wicked?

It is a little more complex than that. There are variations, or different expressions, of God’s wrath portrayed in Scripture. It is His attitude toward sinners who will one day be judged (John 3:36); It is seen as the pouring out of His wrath as described in the book of Revelation; and it is seen as the “Day of His Wrath” when He will judge the sinners according to their deeds and guilt (Romans 2:5-6) to name a few. If the plagues are “the wrath” of God then everyone who has died apart from Christ prior to the plagues being poured out would be spared God’s wrath. This cannot be as those who are not born again are objects of His wrath and will experience it to some degree. Therefore, there is a pouring out of God’s wrath as seen in Revelation, but there is more to His wrath as seen in His judgment of mankind.

 

If it were to happen that the church must go through tribulation and then is raptured out near the end of the 7 years right before the wrath of God is poured out, then will the Restrainer have been removed by then or will that happen after the rapture?

The timing of the rapture is debatable. I have held three different views over the years as I have studied it on and off. The restrainer will be removed in order to release evil from its current constrained position. 2 Thessalonians 2 tells us that the timing of the removal of the Restrainer will be in conjunction with the revealing of the lawless one (the antichrist). Based on the way one reads the text this could be either at the beginning when the 7 year peace treaty is signed or when it is broken and he sets himself up in the temple of God as god.

 

In the case of no one being left behind then except for those whom the wrath of God will fall upon, then no one will be saved after the rapture—that is if the rapture is post-trib and takes place at the end of the 7 year period.

Again, is the idea of facing the wrath of God really about horrific trials and punishment found on earth or is it the facing of God at judgment? Both are applicable to a degree, but let’s remember that in the book of Revelation we see an interesting picture. There will be a time when people long for death and cannot find it in the flesh. This is a picture of what existence in the Lake of Fire will be like one day. They will wish the theory of annihilation were true and that they could cease to exist, but no relief will be found. Thus, no one who is lost will be spared the wrath of God and they cannot escape it by dying before the tribulation, because the Bible tells us that we die and then there is judgment.

 

Many will be born again then during the 7 years of tribulation before the rapture. That would mean many of Israel would find and accept Jesus as Messiah as well during the tribulation. But this would mean no one is saved after the rapture. I am not sure how long it will take God to pour out His wrath on the wicked. It is said that after each plague, no one left alive repents but curses God more.

It would appear that during the tribulation that the door closes for salvation, but that is probably due to the heart of man and not the heart of God. If at some point when all these things are going on and the truth has been before them and they have not received Jesus they will never receive Him without special intervention as God will do with the Jews at the end ... their hearts are hard and closed. Again, this is debatable. Much of the end times will only truly become clear when the end times are unfolding. Every generation has speculated using things that existed in their era, this generation is no exception. The $100.000 question is not will you (meaning an individual) get saved in the tribulation, but what will they do with Jesus now?

 

Before moving on, let’s note one thing. There will be two kinds of people in the trib post rapture. There will be those who have heard of Jesus and rejected Him and those who have never heard of Jesus. Then we also recognize that in the world’s eyes that there is a new savior on the scene, the one many look for (or so they think), the one who will rescue man from his physical and visual plight. Most, by far, will worship him. Getting saved in the tribulation will not be an easy thing.

 

"But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor walk. And they did not repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts" Rev 9:20-21.

Their minds were already made up. Is there no one left to be saved except Israel at the end? I don’t know for sure.

 

Those who do not repent but who are not killed by the plagues, are they the rest of Israel? Or just various inhabitants around the world?

It appears that this speaks to mankind as a whole.

 

What about the Jews who have died from the time of Christ until now without being born again? Is there any hope for them? Or is the remnant of Israel just those who happen to be alive during the final 7 years and repent and those who survive the plagues but do not repent? Or, will all Israel be saved?

There has been a remnant in every age. Jesus pronounced judgment on the Pharisees and others indicating that they would not be saved. Yet, there were those who came to Him in the first century and some Jews from every generation have come to Him. His final work with Israel is unique and is more about Him fulfilling His promises to them.

 

 

Permalink Reply by James on January 24, 2012 at 6:48am

Forget RFID's (at least what you know about them).  I read a year or two ago about ink that carries information.  I guess technically bar codes have done that a long time, however: 

" The RFID tattoo is applied using a geometric array of micro-needles and a reusable applicator with a one-time-use ink capsule."

<-- as you can see there, that does not imply an implant/chip, but rather an RFID tattoo, much like a barcode.

Also:

"It takes approximately five to 10 seconds to tattoo an animal (or a human), and there is no need to remove any fur or hair from the recipient of the tattoo.  Once it is applied, an RFID reader can detect the tattoo from up to four feet away."

Source:

http://signsofthelastdays.com/archives/chipless-rfid-ink

Please note that this isn't the only/original source where I read about this, like I said, I found out about this 1-2yrs ago, and I just did a quick google search for the above so I was able to mention exactly what I remembered.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 24, 2012 at 6:56pm

James,

 

The problem with this link's info is that it is guessing like every generation before us. We tend to attempt to bend Bible prophecy to fit into our time era. If the Lord should tarry there will be further technology developed and we will be reading about the next new thing that could ... may ... possibly ... be the mark at that time.

 

I think most, in not all, of us will be really surprised when these end time ptophecies actually unfold as to what they are and how they come to pass.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

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Permalink Reply by James on January 25, 2012 at 1:22am

I actually agree with you here LT, although the technology I mentioned is unknown to the vast majority of people, and most people assume it's a microchip.  I know this seems possible, but it also seems like an overly simple explanation.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on January 25, 2012 at 9:18pm

Hey Michelle,

 

I've been in a study of the book of Revelation for a while now.  In my notes, the reference to this scripture says that this mark is 'To counterfeit the seal of God on the foreheads of the saints, the seal of the Holy Spirit, the False Prophet will introduce his own counterfeit mark or seal.  The counterfeit seal is the famous mark of the beast.

The placing of the mark will be on the forehead or on the right hand.  It will be given to all who will subject themselves to the authority of the antichrist and accept him as god.  The mark will serve as a passport for business (v 17a).  They will be able to neither buy nor sell anything unless they have the mark. It should be pointed out that this mark has nothing to do with credit, as is often taught today.  In a credit system, everyone must have a different number.  In this case, everyone has the same number.  The purpose of the mark will be to serve as a sign of identification of those who will own the Antichrist as their god.  Only those who have this number will be permitted to work, to buy, to sell, or simply make a living.  The verse does not speak of credit cards, banking systems, a cashless society, a one-world money system, or computers etc.

The interpretation of the mark is given by 5 clues (v17b-18)

The name of the beast

the number of his name

The number of the beast

the number of a man

the number is 666.

(perhaps AntiChrists Hebrew (not English) name will add up to 666)

 

Following through this logical progression, the number of the beast is also the number of a man because the Antichrist will be a man who will be the last ruler of the final form of the Fourth Gentile Empire.

Furthermore, this number is the number of his very own name, and the numerical value of his name is 666.  The point is essentially this:  whatever the name of the Antichrist will be in Hebrew, the numerical value of that name will be 666.  Each lettter of the Hebrew alphabet has a numerical value.  There are 22 letters in the Hebrew alphabet and the order of numerical value they are as follows: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,20,30, 40, 50,60,70,80,90,100,200,300, and 400.  So everyone's name in Hebrew has a numerical value.  The name of Jesus The Messiah has the numerical value of 749.  This is interesting...  Because Jesus says that we must forgive others 7x70 times which equals 490.

 

The number 666 will be one the worshippers of the Antichrist.  However...use caution here.  There are a number of different calculations which can equal to 666.  Therefore, it is impossible to figure the name out in advance.  But when he does appear, whatever his personal name will be, it will equal 666.  Those who are wise at that time will be able to point him out (v18).

 

Hope this helps a bit... :-)

Blessings, Carla

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Permalink Reply by forgiven on January 26, 2012 at 3:43pm

And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. Matthew 24:6

    I like to remember this when I think about prophecy, end times, rapture, pre-trib/post trib disagreements and such.

   I think that the burden of scripture ....gives us clear instruction to 'be ready'.....we do not need to actually know how everything of God will unfold......although, I also have a tendency to wonder and speculate about it.  As in Jesus' parable of the virgin's lamps....make sure you have your oil, and that you are ready.   When He calls....do not have other business that is more important.....be ready.

   I think it is good to study these things....and to look to understand as much as possible, but if we are 'caught up' in silly disagreements and arguements of 'what will happen and when', and who is right?/who is wrong?......then it could be possible that the time could come and go and leave us behind.  If we keep our focus on 'Him'...and just be always ready to 'respond'  to Him and His will...instead of our own understanding......we will be fine. 

  I guess I went on too much....I guess, to make it short and sweet.....:  All we need do, is Seek Him and His kingdom....and 'all else' will be added.

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