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A friend of mine is a great student of the Bible. He tells me many things he has learned in his Bible study time. I have invited him here. Hope he comes soon.

His main topic is the origin of satan. Before he gets here I want to hear from y'all. Did satan fall or was he made as he is from the beginning?



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Hi Terry,

There are things that the Bible does not tell or speak about.
I think John MacArthur's reply to the following question will answer your question as well.

Here is the question:
Since God has all this foreknowledge of looking down through the ages, and knows everything, what baffles me is, why would He ever create Satan, knowing that he’s going to fall, and make him so beautiful, knowing he’s going to have all this pride problem, and knowing through the ages, people are going through all this suffering. Why would He ever create Satan, knowing that all of this is going to happen?

John MacArthur's Answer

Let me ask you a question? Do you understand eternity? Something always was and always will be?

Questioner

Well, I don’t really.

John MacArthur's Answer

I don’t understand that, either. I don’t understand eternity. Something always was, something always will be. God never didn’t exist, and always will exist. I don’t understand that. And, another thing I don’t understand is why God created Satan?

You know what I’ve been able to do through the years of studying the Bible? I’ve just been able to reduce the number of things I don’t understand. There’s still some. And, that’s one. I don’t know that. Because God didn’t tell us that. But, I’ll tell you one thing, God doesn’t make mistakes. He’s too loving to be unkind. He’s too wise to make a mistake. He’s too powerful to be a victim of anything. So, I don’t know the answer to your question. And, you can’t understand it, and I can’t either, and don’t try. Just accept it. Satan is, and that’s all you need to know. You start asking why questions, you’ll find yourself under the bed saying the Greek alphabet. There’s no answer. He did, and that’s the way it is, and I don’t know the answer to that, but I know that someday, I’m going to know, and I’m going to say, “Oh! It was so simple!” But we have this little small brain that can’t absorb all of that.

But, don’t worry about the things, like Mark Twain once said, and it was great wisdom, and he said, “It isn’t things I don’t understand that bother me. It’s the things I do understand.” And, if we’ll major on the things we do understand, then we’ll have enough to keep us busy ‘till we do understand what we don’t understand. End of answer.
Ron.
From what I have read from the bible and MY understanding of it... God created Satan originally as Lucifer.. Lucifer was an angel. He wanted to exalt himself higher so he began to rebel against God. He led a rebellion and convinced one third of the angels that were in heaven to join him in this rebellion. As a results he was kicked out of heaven down here to earth.
I was taught that God created the Angels with a free will just like he created us humans with a free will...
Again, this is just was I was taught by my mom and other Christians that are in my life.... also from my interpretation of what I read in the scriptures.

DEE
I don't think it was in Gods plan, for Satan or man , to become evil. However, when he did, I believe that God, being good, and having the ability and will to bring good out of bad, now uses the evil that is in the world, to teach us and train us in the ways of righteousness. If we are taught down here, on planet earth, the consequences of evil, and we by our own free will choose good, over evil, God wins.... Satan looses.... we are changed..... and delivered from where we fell after the original disobedience, and once changed, God will never have to concern himself again, with the problem of evil, because it will have been fully dealt with here, so there will be no more revolts in heaven, and we can all live with him in peace forever more.
I have a good friend who loves this study. He is the one who can better answer any question on this topic. Rusty will chime in at any time. Today he joined All About God.
This what the Bible says about Satan. Who he was and why he fell and his final punishment...

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Satan was created perfect. He fell by his own freewill. he rebelled against GOD. In his mind he was better than GOD. He took a third of the angels and made war with GOD to get his Throne.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Isaiah 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Isaiah 14:17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof;

I hope this helped..

.Rick.
Invisible thrones, dominions, principalities, or powers were created for the pleasure of the Lord. This is why they continue to exist and operate.

Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

• For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:16
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:17

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

This includes Satan and his kingdom.
Satan was created by God. He did not exist before God.
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

This means that Satan has limited power and is subject to God who created him.
Read Job –chapters 1 & 2

He is a murderer and a liar from the beginning.
This is the description of Satan given by Jesus.

Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Joh 8:44

Another scripture states………..

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Revelation tells us that the devil, the dragon and the serpent refers to Satan.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev 12:9)

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (Rev 20:2)

He is not called Lucifer nor an angel.

Out of the 203 times angel is mentioned in the (kjv) it is not in reference to Satan.

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
(Jud 1:6 ) (SATAN’S NAME NOT MENTIONED)

For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;)
The Lord knoweth how …….. to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: (2Pe 2:4,9) (SATAN’S NAME NOT MENTIONED)


Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth? Job 4:17-19 ( SATAN’S NAME NOT MENTIONED )

Lucifer is found only once in Isa 14:12 and the devil, dragon, serpent or Satan is never mentioned.
None of these names appear in Eze.28

Assuming that these two chapters are talking about Satan makes them a private interpretation.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2Pe 1:20,21

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (2Ti 3:16 )

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2Ti 2:15

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1Co 15:22

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Out of the 203 times angel is mentioned in the (kjv) it is not in reference to Satan. ???
2Corinthians 11:14
14. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Satan = Serpent = Hebrew - nachash, a shining one......
Lucifer = morning star, also another name for Satan

Topic: Satan
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a Greek form derived from the Aramaic (Heb., Satan), "an adversary," is used (a) of an angel of Jehovah in Num. 22:22 (the first occurrence of the Word in the OT); (b) of men, e.g., 1 Sam. 29:4; Ps. 38:20; 71:13; four in Ps. 109; (c) of "Satan," the Devil, some seventeen or eighteen times in the OT; in Zech. 3:1, where the name receives its interpretation, "to be (his) adversary," RV (see marg.; AV, "to resist him").

In the NT the word is always used of "Satan," the adversary (a) of God and Christ, e.g., Matt. 4:10; 12:26; Mark 1:13; 3:23,26; 4:15; Luke 4:8 (in some mss.); 11:18; 22:3; John 13:27; (b) of His people, e.g., Luke 22:31; Acts 5:3; Rom. 16:20; 1 Cor. 5:5; 7:5; 2 Cor. 2:11; 11:14; 12:7; 1 Thess. 2:18; 1 Tim. 1:20; 5:15; Rev. 2:9,13 (twice),24; 3:9; (c) of mankind, Luke 13:16; Acts 26:18; 2 Thess. 2:9; Rev. 12:9; 20:7. His doom, sealed at the Cross is foretold in its stages in Luke 10:18; Rev. 20:2,10. Believers are assured of victory over him, Rom. 16:20.

The appellation was given by the Lord to Peter, as a "Satan-like" man, on the occasion when he endeavored to dissuade Him from death, Matt. 16:23; Mark 8:33.

"Satan" is not simply the personification of evil influences in the heart, for he tempted Christ, in whose heart no evil thought could ever have arisen (John 14:30, 2 Cor. 5:21; Heb. 4:15); moreover his personality is asserted in both the OT and the NT, and especially in the latter, whereas if the OT language was intended to be figurative, the NT would have made this evident. See DEVIL. -Vine's Bible Dictionary-
Question: "Is Lucifer Satan? Does the fall of Lucifer describe Satan?"

Answer: There is no verse or passage in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,” but an examination of several passages reveals that Lucifer can be none other than Satan. The fall of Lucifer described in Isaiah 14:12 is likely the same that Jesus referred to in Luke 10:18: "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.” A similar fall is depicted in Ezekiel 28.

Isaiah 14:12-18 describes the fall from heaven of one called “Lucifer” in the King James Version and the “morning star, son of the dawn” in the NIV. Other Bible versions call him “Day Star,” “shining star,” and “the bright morning star.” These variations are due to differences of opinion about how to translate the Hebrew word helel. Regardless, the description of the one referred to shows us it can be none other than Satan. We know from Jesus’ own words in Luke 10 that Satan fell from heaven. So, when Isaiah refers to Lucifer or helel being cast down to earth (Isaiah 14:12), it can be none other than Satan. The reason for his fall is found in verses 13 and 14: “You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’” This has always been Satan’s desire – to be God, and it is the very temptation he used in the Garden of Eden to get Eve to disobey God: “You shall be as God” (Genesis 3:5).

Ezekiel 28 is another passage thought to refer to Lucifer/Satan. Although it begins with Ezekiel being commanded by God to “take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre” (v. 12), an evil idolatrous king, it soon becomes clear that the passage is referring as well to the power behind that king—Satan. Verse 13 says he was “in Eden, the garden of God.” Clearly, the king of Tyre was never in Eden. Verse 14 says, “You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you.” Apparently, Lucifer/Satan had a position of guardian angel in heaven “among the fiery stones,” thought to be the shining precious jewels that are seen in other descriptions of heaven (Exodus 24:10; Revelation 21:18-21). Since the king of Tyre was never in heaven, either, this can only be describing Lucifer. The rest of the passage describes the reason he was cast out of heaven. Because of his beauty, his heart became proud and his wisdom was corrupted (v. 17). Pride in his perfection, wisdom and beauty (v. 12) became the source of his downfall, and God threw him to the earth (v. 17). This was witnessed by the Lord Jesus in heaven before His incarnation (Luke 10:18).

To summarize, the Hebrew word helel is translated "Lucifer." He was cast out of heaven for his sin of pride and his desire to be God. Jesus referred to seeing Satan being cast out of heaven. Therefore, we can conclude that Lucifer and Satan are one and the same.
Question: "Is Lucifer Satan?
Answer: There is no verse or passage in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,”
This is what you and I agree on.

Does the fall of Lucifer describe Satan?"
Answer: If there is no verse or passage in the Bible that says, “Lucifer is Satan,”
There is nothing to describe a fall to other than the King of Babylon which was who this passage of scripture was about .
Isa 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
Isa 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Your reply
on August 13, 2009 at 4:55am
“This what the Bible says about Satan. Who he was and why he fell and his final punishment...
Satan was created perfect. He fell by his own freewill. he rebelled against GOD. In his mind he was better than GOD. He took a third of the angels and made war with GOD to get his Throne.”

Jesus made an astounding statement in Luk 10:18 …….. I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
THIS IS RECORDED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

Rom 4:17 ………..who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Isa 46:11 ………., I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it.

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

JESUS DID NOT LIE in Luk 10:18 IT WAS MADE GOOD in Rev 12:9.

Religious leaders in the days of Jesus called Satan Beelzebub
Mat_10:25; Mat_12:24; Mat_12:27; Mar_3:22; Luk_11:15; Luk_11:18; Luk_11:19;

Some people today call him Lucifer and that is ok but everybody agrees that it is Satan that was cast to the earth.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
I End of discussion
AMPLIFIED BIBLE


Footnotes:
a. Isaiah 14:2 This prophecy (Isa. 14:1, 2) was fulfilled literally and in detail under King Cyrus of Persia and Babylonia. (Ezra 1.)
b. Isaiah 14:12 The Hebrew for this expression--"light-bringer" or "shining one"--is translated "Lucifer" in The Latin Vulgate, and is thus translated in the King James Version. But because of the association of that name with Satan, it is not now used in this and other translations. Some students feel that the application of the name Lucifer to Satan, in spite of the long and confident teaching to that effect, is erroneous. The application of the name to Satan has existed since the third century A.D., and is based on the supposition that Luke 10:18 is an explanation of Isa. 14:12, which many authorities believe is not true. "Lucifer," the light-bringer, is the Latin equivalent of the Greek word "Phosphoros," which is used as a title of Christ in II Pet. 1:19 and corresponds to the name "radiant and brilliant Morning Star" in Rev. 22:16, a name Jesus called Himself. This passage here in Isa. 14:13 clearly applies to the king of Babylon.
c. Isaiah 14:23 The city of Babylon was in the midst of a very fertile area, and it would have seemed reasonable to suppose that, regardless of what happened to the population, the region would always furnish pasturage for flocks. But Isaiah said it would become the possession of wild animals and would be covered with "marshes and pools of water." This is how that prophecy was literally fulfilled: after Babylon was taken, the whole area around the city was put under water from neglect of the canals and dikes of the Euphrates River. It became stagnant "marshes and pools of water" among ruins haunted by wild animals, proclaiming to any who might see it that "surely, as [the Lord has] thought and planned, so shall it come to pass" (Isa. 14:24).
d. Isaiah 14:25 The prophecy against Assyria had actually by this time already been fulfilled, but Isaiah attached it to the as yet unfulfilled prophecy against Babylon as a pledge or guarantee of the fulfillment of the latter.
Cross references:
A. Isaiah 14:1 : Esth 8:17
B. Isaiah 14:2 : Ezra 1
C. Isaiah 14:29 : II Kings 18:1, 3, 8
I suppose the word reference wasn;t an appropriate word to be used here.( my apology)
The scripture 2Corinthians 11:14 does not identify Satan as a created angel but rather Satan’s ability to transform himself into an angel of light.

(Webster’ 1828 Dictionary)

TRANSFORM'ED, pp. Changed in form or external appearance; metamorphosed; transmuted; renewed.

2Co 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

By reading v13 & v15 together with v14 a better understanding of what Paul was meaning in V14 is more clearer.
(Gen 3:1)
Here is a thought. Read this slowly in order to catch the logic.

First we must establish something about the will of God. I contend that He has a perfect will and a permissive will. Some may argue that He has only a perfect will and that cannot be broken. If you have a choice to do or not to do anything in particular you have just proved that God allowed you to make that choice thus showing the existence of God’s permissive will. If you choose to have pancakes for breakfast rather than scrambled eggs you showed God’s permissive will. If you have no choice you cannot be judged for opposing God’s will by inserting a will that cannot exist.

If you say that satan is as he was created and fulfills God’s will for him how can he be judged as a sinner? Was satan made to be as he is or was he fired from a higher position in the service of God?

It is right to do right and wrong to do wrong. Do you agree? If satan is the way he was designed to be he becomes the exception. For him to do the will of God he must sin therefore sin is no longer sin for him because it is God’s perfect will for him. If he does any truly good thing that becomes sin to him because it violates God’s will for him. Sin can only exist by God permitting it to exist.

If satan is how God allowed him to become he then becomes liable for his behavior and choices. This also shows satan as the only one in existence to sin without a tempter. This is the only view that allows it to be right to do right and wrong to do wrong without exception. Sin can only exist by God permitting it to exist.

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