All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
One size fits all Bible?
Something I've wondered about for a while is...is Scripture for everyone? IE: Because David was king, will we all be elevated? Because the disciples were martyred, will all be? Because some were healed or healed others, will we?
I've heard for years that God is no respecter of persons. That what He does for one He'll do for all. But the actual context of that is that He accepts everyone. It's not that He does the same.
This is sometimes a problem I see with healing ministry when people are told they just need faith or they don't have enough faith. Jesus healed in an instant, Peter and John said walk, and he did, Paul performed healing miracles.
The problem I have with preaching we're to speak that we are already healed by faith is this.
Jesus said this kind only comes out through prayer and fasting. He didn't say just speak it. Since the disciples tried that and it didn't work. The disciples went around healing but couldn't keep from dying themselves. Paul healed the sick yet had his own thorn God wouldn't remove. And most interesting to me is Paul said if there are any sick among you to bring them to the elders to lay hands on them and pray for them. For a man who had healed others, why would he say so they could pray rather than so you could be healed?
I think we are given so many possibilities in Scripture so we can see that God works in each of us according to His will. He left Lazerus sick until death for a reason. The blind man afflicted from birth hadn't sinned but spent much of his life blind so Jesus could show God had sent Him and He could heal.
In light of this, why do some believe God will heal them just to feel dejected if He doesn't?
I've been there. Rather than feel like He is going to heal me, it's less of a struggle believing He wants what's best even if it means I'm not healed.
Personally I believe He has healing for me. Perfect physical healing? No. But there will always be sick among us and our days are all numbered.
How about prosperity? Just because He prospered and elevated Joseph, David, Job...does it mean we're all gonna receive material comfort? What if we're the type that would spend it frivolously?
We should of course be hopeful and live expectantly. But expectant of God's will even when it doesn't match what we think it should.
I don't believe Scripture to be a one size Bible. But it meets every situation as designed by God.
And I pray no one goes through a crushed spirit because they were ever led to think weak faith was why they weren't healed, or told they must be sinning. That's not a Christ like way of building one another up.
I've heard for years that God is no respecter of persons. That what He does for one He'll do for all. But the actual context of that is that He accepts everyone. It's not that He does the same.
This is sometimes a problem I see with healing ministry when people are told they just need faith or they don't have enough faith. Jesus healed in an instant, Peter and John said walk, and he did, Paul performed healing miracles.
The problem I have with preaching we're to speak that we are already healed by faith is this.
Jesus said this kind only comes out through prayer and fasting. He didn't say just speak it. Since the disciples tried that and it didn't work. The disciples went around healing but couldn't keep from dying themselves. Paul healed the sick yet had his own thorn God wouldn't remove. And most interesting to me is Paul said if there are any sick among you to bring them to the elders to lay hands on them and pray for them. For a man who had healed others, why would he say so they could pray rather than so you could be healed?
I think we are given so many possibilities in Scripture so we can see that God works in each of us according to His will. He left Lazerus sick until death for a reason. The blind man afflicted from birth hadn't sinned but spent much of his life blind so Jesus could show God had sent Him and He could heal.
In light of this, why do some believe God will heal them just to feel dejected if He doesn't?
I've been there. Rather than feel like He is going to heal me, it's less of a struggle believing He wants what's best even if it means I'm not healed.
Personally I believe He has healing for me. Perfect physical healing? No. But there will always be sick among us and our days are all numbered.
How about prosperity? Just because He prospered and elevated Joseph, David, Job...does it mean we're all gonna receive material comfort? What if we're the type that would spend it frivolously?
We should of course be hopeful and live expectantly. But expectant of God's will even when it doesn't match what we think it should.
I don't believe Scripture to be a one size Bible. But it meets every situation as designed by God.
And I pray no one goes through a crushed spirit because they were ever led to think weak faith was why they weren't healed, or told they must be sinning. That's not a Christ like way of building one another up.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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I think one of the problems people face when reading the Word of God is that they often ignore the context.
For example there are basically four types of promises made by God found in His Word. There are 1) Eternal unconditional promises. 2) Temporal unconditional promises. 3) Eternal conditional promises. 4) Temporal conditional promises.
We also have to look to see who the promise is directed towards. Is it given to a specific person, a specific group or is it universal?
One example: The promise God gave to Joshua regarding the walls of Jericho. The promise is temporal/conditional/personal, though it affects the whole nation it was given to Joshua. It is not able to be claimed today and replicated. With that said, I do believe that when we find promises that do not apply to us we can still learn important principles from them that can help guide us in our walk with Christ.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Sheila Shaver on
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I think the other two replies hit the nail on the head. Also, I would like to add that God is sovereign and He does whatever glorifies Him and furthers His kingdom.
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD. Isa. 55:8
Think about Paul. Paul was not rich and struggled with the thorn in his side. God did not remove it, but instead used it for His glory by humbling Paul so he could do God's work.
2 Cor. 12:7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
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Right, if it isn't from God, then it is from satan. God kept Paul humble and depending on Him so Paul would not trust in his own flesh. It is very easy to do. Thanks for pointing that out JB.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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LT, many verses though don't read as temporal. Such as:
And my God will supply every need of yours according to his riches in glory in Christ Jesus. how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
Consider the ravens: they neither sow nor reap, they have neither storehouse nor barn, and yet God feeds them. Of how much more value are you than the birds!
You do not have, because you do not ask.
And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up
So when believers in Africa and such starve to death, or those with cancer and other diseases who truly believe God will heal them and have had faithful people praying for them die, or they ask and pray for health and other things they truly desire and Scripture says ask and you shall receive but they don't receive, people question why. Some have their faith shaken and others start claiming they must not have had enough faith.
But there are other verses, such as Paul's thorn. He asked several times but didn't receive or have the thorn removed. So people read if you ask you'll receive and when they don't receive they question God or even their own salvation.
I think it's because God has set Scripture to cover all situations but each may vary according to God's will for that individual. Or they don't think of the end result. Such as believing God will sustain them and supply their needs like food. But if they think of the eternal, then they aren't really dying but passing to another realm of life and that is what they truly need and God will meet. But they wonder why God isn't sustaining their life here and now. Jesus said He had food they didn't know about. But we equate food with physical food because God gave the Israelites manna.
They read how God heals yet they're not healed because they don't consider that God doesn't remove their thorn for reasons they can't understand.
This is why I say it's not a one size fits all. It covers different situations according to the will of God. It's His will people miss, myself often included. And they think His will is to feed or heal them, etc. because of verses like above but they don't consider those He didn't. And not all were before Christ, such as Paul's thorn and Timothy's stomach.
JB you will need more explanation because I'm not sure of what you're getting at. LOL
Sheila,
God is sovereign and He does whatever glorifies Him and furthers His kingdom.
I think that's what people miss. Or they believe it's God's will to prosper them and heal them because of these other verses but forget that prosperity and healing occur for us all when we pass from this life. Or misinterpret prosperity and healing as always physical. So why was Timothy sick? Why were the disciples poor and killed? Just because God desires us to be healthy doesn't mean He has healing for everyone in this life or more than spiritual healing here and now. But I've heard so often you just gotta believe and God doesn't want you sick. Sickness isn't from God and you have to cast it down. God wants us to prosper so we can give to others.
But is that really what He wants or is it a misinterpretation of Scripture that everyone receives these physical things while on earth?
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Seek,
I did not read the whole reply, but am responding the first line. Temporal is one of two possibilities with God ... some promises are temporal and some eternal. We also know that some promises are conditional and some unconditional. Thus, there are four categories. Then one must determine who the intended hearer or recipient is. Is the promise given to a person, a group or is it universal? Therefore we expanded the list to 12 possibilities. We could break it down it to much smaller sub-categories, but that is not necessary at this point.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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JB, hi. There are other things which I question in your post but I will only ask for clarification regarding:
#3... Because the disciples were martyred.will all be? My opinion only, depending on where you are at the time. If you are in ISIS territory there is a good chance you will be. Question would be, Have we truly made Him our refuge, even the Most High our habitation, He says no evil will befall us if we do. Isa.91.
Do you mean those who are martyrs only suffer from that evil because they haven't truly made Him their refuge?
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Thanks for clarifying, JB. I agree with you about the peace. Jesus is our peace.
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JB it seems like some of what you said makes my point. IE #3. According to that then one Scripture of one who was martyred doesn't pertain to all.
Here's another. Some were called to be apostles, some teachers...not everyone is called to the same. So how can Scripture specific to an apostle be applied to the life of a teacher? If God calls you to teach but you think you should be an apostle, it won't work.
That's why I'm asking if everything writtten can be applied in our lives even if we're called to a different purpose. Would Paul say bring the sick to the elders if anyone accepting Christ could heal and when they wanted and not on God's schedule?
In #2, I said king as in his physical kingship on earth. Will God set us all over a country or make us the one who saves a nation from starving just because He did David and Joseph?
This is what I mean one size. Are we taking a Scripture and claiming it's meant for everyone when other Scriptures offer other explanations?
Here's one I had a lot of trouble with...tithing. Those who believe you must tithe 10% in order to receive God's blessings are getting this from a few Scriptures. Those who say it was abolished also use a few Scriptures. And each believe it applies.
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JB when I said king I was referring to David as king. God made him a king. Some claim God wants us to prosper and they look to how He elevated David, Solomon & Joseph. But there are some that weren't elevated in life, even though they trusted God. They lived hard lives. Died horrible deaths.
The Bible is full of Scripture telling us Jesus heals and said we'd do greater. So how many have done this "greater"? How many people have actually healed? Why didn't Paul say heal instead of take them to the elders? If everyone was the same and lived the same we wouldn't need so much Scripture showing us various situations from how God strengthened Gideons mindset, pulled Elijah up from depression, raised a man from death, a woman's son, while others died. And even said we all die. So because He healed some, raised some, why is it believed He will heal or raise everyone just because they believe? Why isn't it enough to believe God will do what He has planned and it may not be what we think He should do for us since He did it for someone else?
Our Father who art in heaven hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come THY will be done.
And I don't recall any Scripture saying God plans to heal all of us on earth, or prosper us, or turn around situations.
That may not bring hope to everyone but what happens when you hope and these things don't happen?
We pray for healing, better finances, help out of trouble, and when it comes we praise God. When it doesn't? Sometimes people lose faith or have their hope shattered. And all because it's been preached that this is what God has for you if you just believe. But that isn't the Gospel of Christ, what we're SUPPOSED to preach, so why is it preached so much? Then rather than knowing how Christ came into the world to willingly die a horrible death so we could live eternally with Him after we've "suffered a little while", we're taught to ask, ask and receive, ask...ask...ask. And we've been lead to believe if we keep asking He'll do it. Yes...persistent widow. But we preach so much on all the asking, we end up with a wrong message so that when we don't receive, we what? How many get mad at God? How many stop hoping? If we stopped expecting all He can do for us instead of thinking of what He's already done, maybe He'll add all that other stuff...maybe He won't. Maybe we're too wrapped up seeing what He did for others that were coveting what they received.
I don't recall Moses having received a trouble free life. The man knew trouble.
There's also the double minded man. I can't count the number of times I've heard that Scripture used "against" people who are trying to grasp the truth of God's Word or suffering depression. I'm betting people told Gideon not to expect to receive anything from God...like being brought up from believing he was a nobody. Or Elijah being fed when he'd given up.
But one will grasp one verse against someone without considering those instances that don't seem to follow. Has the verse been misunderstood or was it applicable to a specific purpose or meaning that hasn't been grasped?
There's isn't any contradiction, but there's certainly a lot of misunderstanding by people. Maybe it's because the Gospel has lost its simplicity. Maybe people have been lead to believe God will make it all better. But is that what He said? He actually guarantees we will have trouble, we will die. His deliverance may be in heaven rather than deliverance now.
I'd love to believe in complete healing, in one day seeing a turnaround in my situation...but what if His plan holds something different? What of those who died believing God would heal them but because of their death others came to believe?
I read of a missionary who lost his children to disease while helping others. Maybe he thought God wouldn't let his kids die? But what of all those he helped? If it's ours, we would wonder why our child. But if it's one child taken from Earth so that 2, 10, 100 would come to believe....we'd probably still have a hard time accepting it. Is it because we've read how Christ healed the man's son, raised the widow's son from death, etc. and can't figure out why He didn't save our child?
I guess what I'm trying to say is I think we get people hoping for deliverance from everything here that we get our eyes on that and think it's God's plan for each of us. And we get so busy hoping for healing that we forget to be thankful for eternity with Him. We start looking for what's seen and stop believing in what's unseen. Instead of remembering it's God's will be done. Not our wants.
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