All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Losing Salvation?
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If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. And you could do all this never confessing and never repenting. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
LOSING YOUR SALVATION -http://robertwells.tripod.com/losingsalvation.html
YOU CAN'T LOSE YOUR SALVATION OR HAVE IT TAKEN AWAY BUT.......
When you were saved you turned to God. Turning to God means the you have committed your life to trusting and obeying God. In John 1:6-7 it says, "If we claim to have fellowship with Him, yet we walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son, purifies us from all sin."
According to this text, "If we walk in the darkness, then we do not live by the truth." If our heart is not repentant when we sin, if our attitude is one of disobedience to the Laws and Commandments of God, if we turn away from God, if we live a life of sin, if we decide the effort to lead a Godly life is not worth it, if the actions of our lives indicate that we no longer desire to be one of God's children, then we don't lose our salvation, and salvation isn't taken from us, but we through our own free will, take our salvation and give it back to God. We tell God we don't want it. We give it up!!!
Ezekiel 3:20 "If the righteous turn from their righteousness and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before them, they shall die".
If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
So ask yourself this question. What is the only way to gain eternal salvation? There are a great many verses that tell us the answer. Below are just two of them:
Ephesians 2:8-9 "By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith, and this not owing to you, it is God's gift."
1Peter 1:5 "Those who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed on the last day.
God makes salvation completely available through Jesus Christ - and not only to specific individuals, but to all who will receive and believe in Jesus Christ as savior. Jesus made this very clear when he said, "Whoever believes in me would not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) The word "whoever" includes everybody. No person is excluded from the opportunity to believe and receive everlasting life.
Your relationship with God, as well as your eternal salvation are based upon faith. Faith that Jesus Christ is who, and what He says he is. And thus if you are committing those sins mentioned in the above paragraph, then you simply don't believe who Jesus is. A person practicing the above sinful actions, certainly indicates that the person no longer has any faith or belief in Jesus Christ.
In other words you can not walk in the darkness unrepentant and still hold onto your salvation. Keep in mind that repentance is much more than stopping the very act of committing those sins that you are asking forgiveness for. Repentance is actually the act of turning away from doing those sins, of not committing them anymore, of changing your life in such a way as you no longer want or desire to commit those sins. You are the one who decides whether to walk in the light or the darkness. God gave you the free will to make your own choices. If you decide to walk in the darkness then your salvation will not be taken away from you, nor will you lose your salvation. No, what you will do is give up your salvation. You will be telling God that your salvation "is not worth the effort it takes to walk in the light". That you do not wish to have his gift of eternal salvation. That you want to make it through this life on your own without any help from God. That you will follow the ways of the world rather than the ways of our Lord. So your own free will determines whether you are going to keep your salvation or give it up. God allows your eternal future to be in your own hands.
Since your own free will is what determines your eternal destiny, then it is very important to note that God will not force anyone to come to him. He is not going to get down on his knees and beg you to believe him, trust him, or accept him. Nor will he force you to love him or demand your obedience. The choice is up to each one of us whether to surrender our lives and our hearts to God or to refuse his love and his blessings. If you don't want any part of Jesus Christ then he is willing to accept that decision since it was made by you through your own free will.
Our Lord did tell us that once we are saved, once we are looking to him for everything, once we have surrendered completely to him, then no one could snatch us away from him.
John 10:28 "And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
So you can't be snatched way, but you sure can walk away.
There are a great many examples of this in the Bible but my favorite is in the book of Mark. It has to do with the story about the time Jesus arrived by boat to a town where he met a demon possessed man who was living in a graveyard. (You can read the entire story in Mark 5:1-21, and it is a great example of people exercising their free will and possibly putting their eternal salvation in jeopardy).
The Bible mentions that this demon possessed man was unusually fierce and dangerous, so much so that the townspeople could not even use the roads in fear that they would be harmed or even killed by this demon possessed man. The demons who resided in this man recognized Jesus and even talked with Jesus, and they knew that Jesus had the power to expel them from the man. So the demons seeing a herd of pigs in the distance, told Jesus that if he was going to expel them from this man, then would Jesus allow the demons to enter into the herd of pigs. So Jesus expelled the demons and the demons left the man and entered into the pigs. Suddenly the pigs realized something was terribly wrong and every single pig rushed over the cliff to their death. The pigs evidently realized that they would rather be dead than to have those demons living within them.
Now the pig herders saw all this happening and they went to the town and told everyone all the details. Verse 17 tells of the townspeople response. "Then the people began to beg Jesus to leave their area." So the response of the townspeople was to tell Jesus to get out of there because they were holding Jesus responsible for the destruction of a whole herd of pigs. They were furious at Jesus because of this economic loss. All that these people could do was to scream at him because they no longer had this herd of pigs. So you can see that the people's only concern was the economic loss of the pigs.
What is really interesting is Jesus's response.
Jesus didn't try to explain to the townspeople that they no longer had to worry about this very dangerous demon possessed man. That he was no longer a threat to their safety. Nor did Jesus ask them if they wanted to know why this formerly demon possessed man was now able to sit there quietly, fully dressed, and in his right state of mind. Nor did he try to tell them that if he could expel demons from this man, then just think of the demons that he could expel from the rest of the townspeople. Neither did Jesus ask the people if they wanted to find out more about this man who could expel demons or why he even did what he did, or why he even came there in the first place. And Jesus certainly didn't argue with the people that the price of the pigs was rather small compared to their peace of mind and their eternal future. Jesus didn't even ask these people if they wanted to learn about the one who sent him. Jesus didn't do any of these things because he could see that the only thing any of these people really cared about was the economic loss of the pigs. They had their minds all made up and money was the number one thing in their lives. They exerted their free will and told Jesus to leave town and leave town now. They had exercised their free will.
Using their own free will, those people wanted nothing to do with Jesus. Their only interest was in worldly things and because of that, they told Jesus to hit the road and go some place else and kill pigs. Jesus knew exactly what was in their hearts, and that their minds were closed to anything that Jesus had to say. So what did Jesus do? Jesus simply turned around, boarded the boat and proceeded across the water and went into his own city. Without a word, he simply turned and left, and very possibly took with him their eternal salvation.
John 15:1-2 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He removes every branch in me that bears no fruit. Every branch that bears fruit he prunes to make it bear more fruit".
John 15:6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned".
1 Corinthians 10:12 "Therefore let him who thinks he is standing, beware, that he does not fall".
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Beloved Amanda,
>>I am feeling very discouraged at this moment. I am both stupid and sad. There are people I pray for to be saved, but what's the use? God already knows who is who.
I pray and hope that we are not the cause of your discouragement sis and will pray our Lord strengthens you. I disagree with you calling yourself stupid. Your writing has always screamed out the opposite. You are very articulate, which is a sure sign of intelligence.
I believe in the predestination of a people for which Christ died for. I have believed that for about 6 years now, however it has never occurred to me to stop praying for anyone. I tell you why. I see a loving God in the word among many other great things, the attribute we most enjoy and desire from Him, is His love. So when I see that this holy, awesome, beautiful God has said the following to me:
1 Timothy 2:8 (New International Version)
8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands...
Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. Philippians 4:6
Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. Luke 19:9
He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.'Acts 11:14
Psalm 4 Delight yourself in the LORD;
And He will give you the desires of your heart.
I came to the Lord Sixteen years ago. The first Christian in a family of six, within a year my mother and sister became believers. One of my brothers followed a few years later. My father is now my brother in Christ as of 2009 and my oldest brother became my brother in Christ about 6 months ago. My entire home is Christian. My sister's husband as well is a Christian. Her kids now go to church regularly.
I never stopped praying for them. But how can I believe that God chooses people before the foundation of the world or that unless He regenerates/gives light to a person my prayers make any difference. Well I am chosen and God knew that at choosing me, I would be the first in the family and He placed a great compassion for the lost in my heart and specially for my family. I pray because God tells me to talk to Him about everything that concerns me and not to be anxious about anything and to have a relationship with Him primarily, but also because I believe He already factored in my prayers into His overall plan and since He tells me that if I delight in Him, he will give me the desires of my heart and I believe Him, because He is not a lair I pray.
I pray He changes their heart, that He break their will and establish His in their lives. I pray that He turns the heart of stone into a heart of flesh and believe He has the power to do it and that He is good to me.
I do not know who is predestined to be saved, but I do know I love the Lord and He loves me. I also know that my prayers matter to Him and believe that even if He had not chosen someone to be saved from the foundations of the world, if I pray for them He will chose them, that is what I mean by stating that my prayers are already worked into His overall plan.
Blessings. -
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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David,
The Word tells us that the prayer of a righteous person gets a lot done:
Pr 15:29
29 The Lord is far from the wicked
but he hears the prayer of the righteous. NIV
Jas 5:16
16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective. NIV
1 Pe 3:12
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous
and his ears are attentive to their prayer,
but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil." NIV
Who are the righteous? They are the ones who have put their faith in the Lord Jesus. They should pray and continue to pray as their prayers make a huge difference in outcomes especially in the lives of their family's salvation. Never quit praying. It is never too late. Until they are lowered in the grave, keep on praying.
Roy -
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Amen Roy, amen.
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Kneeling,
I believe she will come back home. It may take some time but if she really had a saving faith as a young person, she will return. Jesus will not leave her behind. She has good reason to be upset from the sounds of it. Jesus knows why and will someday show her. I would just keep encouraging her and letting her know from your perspective that you completely understand her anger towards God but that in the end she will understand it. She needs to see your unconditional acceptance of her. There are plenty of nuts going around telling people about how little faith they have. It only takes a glimmer. Love her, pray for her and expect her return. Your prayers will go a long way towards her return. You are the key or someone like you. She has to see God's unconditional love through someone.
Roy -
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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26 but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me,1 is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of tthe Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Jn 10:30
I stand on this promise of Christ.
My point of view is that these verses include myself as well. I can't remove myself from the Father's hand. Some times when we read and study the Bible, we allow the first of what we read to be erased for the next thing we read when we need to be remembering ALL of it.
Blessings to all,
Rita -
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Dear Amanda,
I am reading your replies, and I hope to encourage you in your time of doubt. I have gone through times of doubt, i believe every Christian does....that's part of our walk to more intimacy with Christ. We also experience times of broken fellowship when we sin or are disobedient. This does not mean loss of salvation, it just means broken fellowship. Jesus wants us to be assured of our Salvation.
As Believers we have these promises in Romans 5:1-11
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, [fn] we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom 5:2 through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and [fn] we exult in hope of the glory of God.
Rom 5:3 And not only this, but [fn] we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance;
Rom 5:4 and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope;
Rom 5:5 and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Rom 5:6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For one will hardly die for a righteous man; [fn] though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die.
Rom 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified [fn] by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved [fn] by His life.
Rom 5:11 And not only this, [fn] but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
Promises for the Believer
verse 1
We have piece with God.
~we are justified--this happens once, it is something that happened in the past, and it will only happen once.
~our peace is continual. this is always in the present tense. Fellowship may be broken, but you can rest in knowing that you have found the truth. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father but through Him. You know that you know that you know this is true....nothing can take this peace from you. A believer can be assured of their salvation because they are not searching for the truth in some other place.. Salvation is of the Lord. We are resting in the finished work of Christ, nothing of our selves. Jesus is worthy of our honour and praise.
Verse 2
We have access to God's Grace. We must know who we are in Christ. We must also make use of this access to God's Grace. Our Spiritual life is dependent on it. Grace is the influence of God in man to improve and strengthen. A person can fail because they fail to approproate God's Grace (this still does not mean loss of salvation--but loss of joy etc...) Since they don't appropriate God's Grace they don't have God's Strength for life's difficult circumstances. What does it mean to appropriate? It means to use as one's own or take possession of. PRAY.. God's Grace is sufficient.
verse 2b
Rejoice in the Hope of the Glory of God. We have a pure hope of our coming Glory. Glory is the end of the sanctification process. Justification has already happened...but now we are being sanctified. We are going to enter into God's Glory (Col 3:4).
verse 3,4 and 5
we have patience in tribulations or patient endurance
this is the process that leads to glorification..
~periods of trials and tribulations actually help us. Don't waste the tribulation. By means of this particular tribulation, God will make in us a Christ-like image....Our Christian character will be built up.
~at this point we appropriate this grace through prayer.
~this works for us and gives us patient endurance...and the Grace works as this is working out. God's Grace is sufficient.
Give all these problems to God. The result of this approved character, is that it leads to HOPE. It's all God's work in us. This is our process of Growth. Romans 5:4 NASB says 'proven character' will lead us to a state of hope.....So we are confident. This is a divine hope..a Sure Hope. This Hope does not disappoint.
This all ties back to peace. We know what we know what we know what we know to be true. We will not search for another truth. Jesus is the way the truth and the life.
This hope is not an illusion. It will come to pass. Why does faith work? We have a conscience of the love of God poured into our hearts by the means of the Holy Spirit.
There are a few places in scripture where we are told to test our faith. How do I know I'm saved?
the book of James tells us...
1) We pay attention to God's Word. We respond to it, and we desire it.
2) We don't compromise our faith by favourtism.
3) Works.. works do not give us salvation..Salvaation is by faith.. But our works are the result of our Salvation.
4) Self control (because of the indwelling Holy Spirit)
5) Personal response to worldliness
6) Resorting to prayer in all things.
I also have this blog to check out if you want:
http://www.allaboutgod.net/profiles/blogs/how-do-you-know-you-are-s...
Amanda,
Rest in the assurance that you belong to the Lord.. Remember it's all about Jesus. Turn your eyes upon Jesus.
Blessings and Love in Christ, Carla -
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Hi Amanda,
We will all be tempted.. Jesus was tempted. Here's an article to prayerfully read over.
Question: "What was the meaning and purpose of Jesus' temptations?"
Answer: The three temptations by Satan in the wilderness were not the only temptations our Lord ever suffered on Earth. We read in Luke 4:2 that He was tempted by the devil for forty days, but He was undoubtedly tempted at other times (Luke 4:13; Matthew 16:21-23; Luke 22:42), and yet in all this He was without sin or compromise. Although some have suggested that the Lord’s period of fasting compares with that of both Moses (Exodus 34:28) and Elijah (1 Kings 19:8), the main point is how the Lord deals with temptation in the light of His humanity.
It is because He was human, and made like us in everyway, that He could do three vital things: 1) destroy the devil’s power and free those who were held in slavery by their fear of death (Hebrews 2:15); 2) become a merciful and faithful High Priest in service to God and atone for our sins (Hebrews 2:17); and 3) be the One who is able to sympathise with us in all our weaknesses and infirmities (Hebrews 4:15). Our Lord’s human nature enables Him to sympathise with our own weaknesses, just as He was subjected to weakness, too. More importantly, we have a High Priest who is able to intercede on our behalf and provide the grace of forgiveness.
Temptation is never as great as when one has made a public declaration of faith as did our Lord when He was baptised in the Jordan (Matthew 3:13-17). However, we also note that during this time of exhaustive testing, our Lord was also ministered to by angels, a mystery indeed that the omnipotent One should condescend to receive such help from lesser beings! Here is a beautiful description of the ministry that His people also benefit from. During times of testing and trial, we too are aided by angels who are ministering spirits sent to those who will inherit salvation (Hebrews 1:14).
Jesus’ temptations follow three patterns that are common to all men. The first temptation concerns the lusts of the flesh (Matthew 4:3-4). Our Lord is hungry and the devil tempts Him to convert stones into bread, but He replies with Scripture, quoting Deuteronomy 8:3. The second temptation concerns the pride of life (Matthew 4:5-7), and here the devil uses a verse of Scripture (Psalm 91:11-12), but the Lord replies again with Scripture to the contrary (Deuteronomy 6:16), stating that it is wrong for Him to abuse His own powers. The third temptation concerns the lusts of the eyes (Matthew 4:8-10), and if any quick route to the Messiahship could be attained, bypassing the passion and crucifixion for which He had originally come, this was the way. The devil already had control over the kingdoms of the world (Ephesians 2:2) but was now ready to give everything to Christ in return for His allegiance. But the mere thought almost causes the Lord’s divine nature to shudder at such a concept and He replies sharply, “You shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only” (Deuteronomy 6:13).
There are many temptations that we sadly fall into because our flesh is naturally weak, but we have a God who will not let us be tempted beyond what we can bear; He will provide a way out (1 Corinthians 10:13). We can therefore be victorious and then will thank the Lord for deliverance from temptation. Jesus’ experience in the desert helps us to see these common temptations that keep us from serving God effectively. Furthermore, we learn from Jesus’ response to the temptations exactly how we are to respond—with Scripture. The forces of evil come to us with a myriad of temptations, but all have the same three things at their core: lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. We can only recognize and combat these temptations by saturating our hearts and minds with the Truth. The armour of a Christian solider in the spiritual battle of life includes only one defensive weapon, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Ephesians 6:17). Knowing the Bible intimately will put the Sword in our hands and enable us to be victorious over temptations.
Recommended Resource: Jesus: The Greatest Life of All by Charles Swindoll. -
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Everything, here, is true. However, I would just like to comment that not only does He receive us back with open arms, He really never lets us go. We just sometimes think we have gotten lost. He knows where we are at all times. I think this must be a really difficult job going around bringing back all his lost sheep. He has to know where we are or we might just get away. Nope, no way possible - we are not going to get away from His powerful grasp.
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Your quote: If you could not give up your salvation voluntarily, then once you become saved you could then go ahead and do whatever you wish. You could steal, murder, cheat, lie, never pray, reject the scriptures, lead others astray, blaspheme God from morning to night - do anything that is sinful, rebellious, and against the laws of God. And you could do all this never confessing and never repenting. To believe that "once saved, always saved" is believing that one has a "license to sin" after the person is born again."
You could, but if you were saved, you wouldn't want to. The nature of the saved person is to crave pure spiritual milk, like a newborn babe. -
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Chip,
The quote comes from the article that Michelle posted. If you disagree with the quote I encourage you to engage it Scripturally and prove it wrong. There are people out there that believe that way whether it makes sense to you or not who love Jesus.
Calling it ridiculous and claiming you knew this discussion would bring nonsense does not address the comment or further edify the body. Rather it causes division. You disagree with the comment. Now, explain why.
Lord Bless,
LT
TheNET Coordinator -
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Here are some teachings on God's Grace which have been very beneficial to me
'In the Grip of Grace'http://www.christianbook.com/in-the-grip-of-grace/max-lucado/9780849909528/pd/90952X?kw=in_the_grip_of_grace&event=PPCSRC&p=1018818&cm_mmc=Google-_-Authors-_-max%20lucado-_-in%20the%20grip%20of%20grace&gclid=CJjGi-XqnaUCFQG6Kgod7wm9Ig
Max Lucado
'Grace Based Parenting' http://www.christianbook.com/grace-based-parenting-tim-kimmel/97808...
Tim Kimmel
'Loving on Purpose' http://www.lovingonpurpose.com/
Danny Silk
'Who's Your Daddy' http://www.lovingonpurpose.com/
Danny Silk
'Grace Anatomy' http://www.themeetinghouse.ca/index.php?option=com_content&view...
Bruxy Cavey
This last one is a teaching of the Pastor of my church. Go to the page and click on teachings and you can download it on itunes. Very excellent teaching.
I hope these things help you.
Blessings, Carla -
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