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Is masturbation a sin?
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Permalink Reply by dean burrows on
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Oh yes I fully understand that although even it being a involuntary manipulation it is considered unclean. The enemy through his deciet as with Adam would love to convince us that a voluntary manipulation is not wrong.
Just the whole thought seems somewhat weird. If at night or in an unconscious state I ejaculate that is unclean (unGodly) yet I can sit wide awake and ejaculate as a result of my own conscious effort and that is ok?
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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My brother Dean,
What I was trying to bring out with my comment is the fact that you stated that Leviticus 15:16 speaks about masturbation, which it does not appear to do so. There is a difference between masturbating and involuntary release of fluids.
We have to be careful not to add or subtract from the word and only speak and assure as much as the word does.
Blessings to you beloved.
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Oh yes I see what you are saying and for many years I agreed with the scholars and high priests of history then I read on and realized that lieing with a woman is voluntary. I also realized that the scholars and high priests were human no different than I. So if you look at the full context as written it is speaking of a voluntary act. I would love to believe otherwise but sorry I do not see it when reading from 16 through to and including 18. Leviticus 1 through/including 15 speaks of the involuntary issue ( zob seminal or menstrual flux involuntary flow ). In verse 16 the statement is very much different in that it speaks of seed of copulation therefore voluntary as opposed to an issue- involuntary.
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Thankyou Raul
I can see that . And now I feel better to know masturbation is not a sin. It only makes you unclean for the day.
Sorry for the sarcasm. But this actually gets back to another discussion going on about more modern translations and do they alter the word. NIV uses the words bodily discharge, which I had always taken to imply diseease. Then I listened to a Rabbi speak on passage and wow I wish I could remember all of and how he spoke. The english translation and/or the understanding of it gives the idea that a person with a disease is a sinner and needs atonement. Yet even the NIV makes a distinction. Use of the words discharge(being likely involuntary) and emission (likely voluntary) of.
Verse 31 contains a warning regarding both we must not forget that. Verse 32 reminds us there is regulations regarding all of the previous verses.
Once again I wish i could recall the Rabbi's words as they brought a whole new meaning to this passage for me. The discussion of voluntary or involuntary could go on forever. AS I do not understand nor know how to read the original language. I must back down. Although I have not changed my opinion.
Thanks for the discusion and if I happen to find copies of the rabbi's discussion I would be more than happy to get them to you.
May we all hear the quidance of The Lord
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ok but from my point to be unclean is to be unGodly altimately to be in sin and Praise the Lord He has sent us a guide to help us through these questions.
I sometimes find it easier to believe if I have to ask" is it sin" I know the answerbefore the question.
Thanks raul I am sure we will talk soon.
Oh and David thanks also
May The Father continue to bless You
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Raul and Dean,
If we have all knowledge but no love, we have nothing, so I truly appreciate you brothers sharing in love.
My Lord continue to blessed you two
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Thanks y'all for this very insightful and revealing discussion o masturbation. I've never doubted that masturbation is a sin and standing up for my position has been made easier. thanks to you Dean. Masturbation is an unnecessary pleasure that we all should flee from. If u (I) were face to face with the Spirit wud you (I) masturbate? God help us
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Dean, i'm sorry to cut you off here, but your arguments become skewed because you begin your premise with the idea "unclean = unGodly" in the Leviticus 15:16. A better understanding of that passage could be found in seeing that unclean often could be understood as "not suitable for being in the congregation" which seems to me more likely to mean "unhealthy" or "contagious". There are many times the term "unclean" is used of persons who have contracted something, such as leprosy, which is not necessarily a result of their "ungodliness". A person who has had to carry a corpse was considered "unclean" and not allowed to participate in Passover rituals. But they may have had to remove a dead person from the village, in obedience to scripture, which was certainly not "unGodly".
Really, isn't the argument you are making better to be considered in context of lust? Jesus covers lust pretty clearly in the Gospels, which He demonstrates is a sin equivalent to adultery. Isn't this really in that same category? I don't see the need to extend it from Leviticus 15, which seems to be addressing a health issue, more than a matter of sinful behavior.
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Oh i agree it is a matter of sexual lust which as you say is covered throughout scripture. The idea of unclean being unGodly is not my idea it is very much an idea in the Jewish faith so I had been taught.
I like what you are saying we as people shouldn't be making such reasonings about others yet unfortunately the teachings of many religious leaders has done just that. For example the originsal Teachings have our Jewish brothers and sisters belieiving things like if they eat pork they will die or for that matter mix dairy and meat. All I am pointing out is that the history of the statements is very impotant. True we can interpret scripture with great intelligence but put the history to it and it can have a very much different meaning. For this reason it is very important to let The Spirit guide us.
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In my view, sex is wonderful when God has blessed it and the Bible is pretty clear about when God blesses the act - within the context of marriage.
Doesn't make certain urges any less easy to deal with mind you (especially when you're dating someone you are very much in love with but that's a whole other topic)
Just to add confusion to the matter;
One of the leaders in a church did a sermon once where he looked at the Old Testament laws and which ones we are to follow. His answer was none except the ones Christ referrs to as we no longer bound by the law or come to God through the law.......
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did Jesus not say He wasn't going to erase in of the laws not one letter. That is kind of an interesting statement. This is where think we really have to be in tune with Holy Spirits leading.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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When we think of the Law we need to have a right understaing regarding the various covenants that God has made. Some of the major covenants are the Abrahamic, Mosaic, Palistinian, Davidic and New Covenant. Most of the laws are given under the Mosaic Covenant and were specifically directed at Israel as a nation. These laws were given to govern and guide them. There are many principles that we can take from the Mosaic Covenant, but we are not under the law as outlined in Romans, Galatians and Hebrews. The Apsotles had their chance to put the burden of the law on the Gentiles, but did not. In fact, we see recorded in Acts 15 that only four things were given to the Gentiles who had come to faith.
This also requires us having a clear understanding that Israel and the church are two separate entities and when looking at Scripture we need to identify who God is speaking to at the particular moment. This is extremely important when studying prophecy.
Lord Bless,
LT
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