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Is It Proper for non-catholic Christians to Attend Catholic Baptisms?
One of my best friends, who I have been witnessing to for almost 20 years, has invited me to attend his childs catholic baptism. I am conflicted about attending because I do not believe in infant baptism, but I believe in being a supportive friend. I'd appreciate the comments of others.
Chas
Chas
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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I agree with Gail Morris. The gift you may give will show that you still love the family.
Babies are immersed or sprinkled in water every day. So it is not the act that matters here, but the message that is supported by those who sprinkle babies. They call it "Baptismal regeneration".
In other words their claim is that the moment the child has undergone the procedure of sprinkling, the child is "Born Again" into the family of God. The God parents who may not be Christians themselves, take an oath to bring the child up in a manner that complies with the Christian faith. Despite the fact that they themselves may not.
It is all this "Mumbo Jumbo" that cannot be found in scripture and basically the cause of millions of people going into a lost eternity, because they believe that they were saved - Born Again when sprinkled as babies. It is for this reason that I personally will not attend.
The Lord give you the wisdom required in this matter as I fully understand where you are coming from.
Friend and Brother in Christ
Ron.
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Permalink Reply by Sharon Theresa Theil on
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Ron,
I think that you misunderstand and misrepresent Catholic Doctrine.
Sharon
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Dear Sharon.
I believe brother Ron has it right on, I can post multiple Catholic documents where they explain the sacrament as one of regeneration. Babies that are not baptized according to the Chatolic tradition will end up in Limbo.
Definition from the Catholic encyclopidia: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm
The Roman Catechism (Ad parochos, De bapt., 2, 2, 5) defines baptism thus: Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration by water in the word (per aquam in verbo). St. Thomas Aquinas (III:66:1) gives this definition: "Baptism is the external ablution of the body, performed with the prescribed form of words."
Later theologians generally distinguish formally between the physical and the metaphysical defining of this sacrament. By the former they understand the formula expressing the action of ablution and the utterance of the invocation of the Trinity; by the latter, the definition: "Sacrament of regeneration" or that institution of Christ by which we are reborn to spiritual life.
The term "regeneration" distinguishes baptism from every other sacrament, for although penance revivifies men spiritually, yet this is rather a resuscitation, a bringing back from the dead, than a rebirth. Penance does not make us Christians; on the contrary, it presupposes that we have already been born of water and the Holy Ghost to the life of grace, while baptism on the other hand was instituted to confer upon men the very beginnings of the spiritual life, to transfer them from the state of enemies of God to the state of adoption, as sons of God.
The definition of the Roman Catechism combines the physical and metaphysical definitions of baptism. "The sacrament of regeneration" is the metaphysical essence of the sacrament, while the physical essence is expressed by the second part of the definition, i.e. the washing with water (matter), accompanied by the invocation of the Holy Trinity (form). Baptism is, therefore, the sacrament by which we are born again of water and the Holy Ghost, that is, by which we receive in a new and spiritual life, the dignity of adoption as sons of God and heirs of God's kingdom.
Limbo
Late Latin limbus) a word of Teutonic derivation, meaning literally "hem" or "border," as of a garment, or anything joined on (cf. Italian lembo or English limb).
In theological usage the name is applied to (a) the temporary place or state of the souls of the just who, although purified from sin, were excluded from the beatific vision until Christ's triumphant ascension into Heaven (the "limbus patrum"); or (b) to the permanent place or state of those unbaptized children and others who, dying without grievous personal sin, are excluded from the beatific vision on account of original sin alone (the "limbus infantium" or "puerorum").
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David,
I think you may have a dispute with the Baptism in the Catholic Church but I don't see any problem with infant baptism.
Sharon.
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Sis Sharon,
I have no problem with the churches that practice infant baptism as a practice which does not attached the meaning to the sacrament as the Catholic Church does.
If a church wants to practice the tradition simply to present the child before the Church/God to identify the parents of the child as members who are making a commitment to raise their child in Godliness, then that is fine, but not to declare the child regenerated.
So in conclusion I do take issue with the erroneous meanings attached to the Catholic practice.
Your brother in Christ. Be blessed and a blessing!
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So in conclusion I do take issue with the erroneous meanings attached to the Catholic practice.
Fair enough. On issues of doctrine there are always going to be disputes and disagreements. Fortunately, we are not called to worship doctrine but we are called to worship the One True God and His Son Jesus Christ.
Your Sister in Christ Jesus,
Sharon.
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Hi Sharon
You have every right to be free in thought. That's the way we learn and YES people will always argue on the doctrines that are written in the Bible, but we need to be sure that the doctrine is in the Bible.
Therefore; where Sharon, is the doctrine of Christening in the Bible?
Blessings
Ron
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Therefore; where Sharon, is the doctrine of Christening in the Bible?
By Christening I think you mean infant baptism as opposed to a person of age who is immersed. As far as I know there is no doctrine of Christening in the Bible. Which means? -
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Sharon,
Without the right doctrinal foundation we can easily offend God rather than worship Him. We only know how to worship, serve and pray to God correctly if we are founded on the truth.
1 Timothy 4:16
Take heed to yourself and to the doctrine. Continue in them, for in doing this you will save both yourself and those who hear you.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 (New King James Version)
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Titus 1:9
holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.
There are many more passeges dear sister exorting us to heed to sound doctrine for without it we cannot worship God in a way pleasing to Him.
Many blessing to you and your family beloved.
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David,
Without the right doctrinal foundation we can easily offend God rather than worship Him.
There are many more passeges dear sister exorting us to heed to sound doctrine for without it we cannot worship God in a way pleasing to Him.
I agree. Could you show me from the Bible the doctrine that states that God is offended by a Baby being baptised?
Many Blessings to you as well my brother in Christ. -
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Chas,
Because you don't believe in infant baptism...what? What you can't go and support your friend of 20 years! That is simply silly. Go! Have a good time! If Jesus ate with tax collectors and sinners I think you can attend an infant baptism.
Sharon
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Hi Sharon,
Of course Jesus ate with Tax Collectors and sinners, just as I do with non believers, Anglicans, Catholics and Sinners But do you believe that Jesus would accompany sinners to a brothel?
But similar to my close and dear friend, an Alcoholic; - whom I witness to at every opportunity - who asks me to join him and go down to the pub and join him for a drink, I decline. Going with him approves what he is doing. My other close friend, - to whom I also witness at every opportunity - knows what I stand for and accepts it.
Keep in mind that just as your attendance at a wedding shows your approval of the match, so too your attendance at a Christening lends your approval.
One has to make a stand. What good is it to say that you believe that the Bible is God's very Word and instruction on what he expects from you; when by your attendance in the pub or at a Babies Christening, be basically approving of that which is not what God instructed?
Would you attend if a very close and dear friend invited you to his initiation into witchcraft? (This is rife in South Africa)
Regarding the Theological stance on Baptism, the act of Baptism is always represented as being immersed.
A) "And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much
water there: and they came, and were baptized (immersed Grk Baptizo) Joh 3:23.
B) "And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip
and the eunuch; and he baptized (immersed Grk Baptizo) him. Acts 8:38.
C) "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism (immersion Grk Baptizmatos) into death: that like as
Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in
newness of life. Rom 6:4
Most Churches that Christen babies believe in the doctrine of Baptismal regeneration. I know because I was Christened and finally confirmed at an older age. Let's walk through the rites of confirmation.
Priest: "What is you name?"
Child : Ron.
Priest: "Who gave you this name?" (Now comes the punch line next.)
Child: My God Father and God mother at my baptism, where in I was made a child of God.
Believe me; after the christening and then at a later age, confirmation, I was as much a Christian child of God as the heathen who polished the Churches floors. In fact all that the confirmation did for me was to make me a "Confirmed sinner."
Seriously and for my own benefit Sharon, if you would tell me how and in what way I do not understand or misinterpret Catholic Doctrine? I need to know, because I do not wish to offend anyone
I trust that this helps Sharon.
The Lord Bless us both,
Ron
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