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Is he possessed by the devil?
I've got a friend, he is a non believer and he claimed to be able to SEE things that normal people could not, after getting a high fever. He is able to see "ghosts"/evil spirits everywhere, at the window or at any place. Most of them in the toilet. He told his brother that he was not allowed to speak of them and he would try to avoid them and ask his brother to shut the windows for him or avoid roads with alot of such "things". He could see aimless ones as well as scary ones which would try to attack him. How is it possible that these things could attack him? arent we in a different dimension? (thats besides the point) The point is, how to help him? He is a non believer. The bible has no purpose if he does not have faith in it right? Is he possessed?
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Permalink Reply by KathleenB on
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Thank you David. That was an EXCELLENT explanation of the use of the word "fast" as it was meant here so, now, I totally understand.
The only concern I had was that, if someone was actually suffering from a real onset of schizophrenia, fasting may reduce their chances of obtaining a useful therapy. Do you agree?
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Kathleen,
Yes and no,
God may allow a person who is really suffering from schizophrenia to get the physical consequences of fasting under such a condition or not. It all depends on how He is dealing with the individual at a particular time.
God has given us science. The first scientists in history were Christian man, not because everyone in the academic world at that time was affiliated with the Church or Christianity, but because it was the Christians who understood that if there was a creator, then the creation must be intelligible so they set out to find the logic and order in the universe surrounding them. God has given us medicine and we are to use it. Paul tells Timothy in one of his epistles to take medicine. Luke himself was a doctor. So if you have a born again believer who does not make use of the benefits God has provided for us through doctors than he may teach him through such ordeals that that is not a wise thing to do.
The other side of the coin is that the real Kathleen is not bones, flesh tissue and cells, but the real you is your conscious person. Your soul, not the chemical releases of our brain, as is believe by some who explain things such as love, as a releasing of chemicals in our brain to create the euphoria of emotions. The real you is the inner person, the person who from time to time questions, what in the world is this all about? Is there purpose to life?
Are UFO's real haha and other things like tha, things pertaining to life and life after death?
Sorry - I tend to go off on tangents here and there. The other side of the coin is that our God can heal anything and everything. He has and does still heal people when is His will to heal them, at times during a time of fasting. The person wanting to fast for an illness must examine their walk and be discerning as to which path God would have them take. There is also the ideal of doing both things, consulting a doctor before fasting if they have physical illnesses and fast according to the doctor’s recommendation.
That is why the answer is yes and no, because our relationship with the Lord is a personal one. God has no favorites and if He does is obviously me haha but he shows no partiality among his people, but He does deal with each one individually according to the season that they’re in, in their lives at a particular point.
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Interesting stuff David,
But according to Bradley Steffens a Christian was not the first known scientist, and I quote:
European scholars had been conducting experiments for three hundred years, ever since a British-born Franciscan monk named Roger Bacon advocated experimentation in the thirteenth century. One of Bacon's books, Perspectiva (Optics) challenges ancient Greek ideas about vision and includes several experiments with light that include all seven steps of the scientific method.
Bacon's Perspectiva is not an original work, however. It is a summary of a much longer work entitled De aspectibus (The Optics). Perspectiva follows the organization of De aspectibus and repeats its experiments step by step, sometimes even word for word. But De aspectibus is not an original work, either. It is the translation of a book written in Arabic entitled KitÄb al-ManÄzir (Book of Optics). Written around 1021,KitÄb al-ManÄzir predates Roger Bacon's summary of it by 250 years. The author of this groundbreaking book was a Muslim scholar named AbÅ« 'AlÄ« al-Hasan ibn al-Hasan ibn al-Haytham.
Born in Basra (located in what is now Iraq) in 965, Ibn al-Haytham --known in the West as Alhazen or Alhacen--wrote more than 200 books and treatises on a wide range of subjects. He was the first person to apply algebra to geometry, founding the branch mathematics known as analytic geometry.
Ibn al-Haytham's use of experimentation was an outgrowth of his skeptical nature and his Muslim faith. He believed that human beings are flawed and only God is perfect. To discover the truth about nature, he reasoned, one had to allow the universe to speak for itself. "The seeker after truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and, following his natural disposition, puts his trust in them," Ibn al-Haytham wrote in Doubts Concerning Ptolemy, "but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them, the one who submits to argument and demonstration."
To test his hypothesis that "lights and colors do not blend in the air," for example, Ibn al-Haytham devised the world's first camera obscura, observed what happened when light rays intersected at its aperture, and recorded the results. This is just one of dozens of "true demonstrations," or experiments, contained in KitÄb al-ManÄzir.
By insisting on the use of verifiable experiments to test hypotheses, Ibn al-Haytham established a new system of inquiry--the scientific method--and earned a place in history as the first scientist.
Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/637076
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Kathleen,
The topic of who the first scientist was is debatable with both sides being able to quote historical figures, so instead of falling into circular debate, I will let that one go. We would have to get into the “who is considered a scientist" and what forms of study are considered science with and/or without using the scientific method.
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong. (Clarke's First Law)" [Arthur C. Clarke Profile of the Future]
"It is a good morning exercise for a research scientist to discard a pet hypothesis every day before breakfast. It keeps him young" [Konrad Lorenz On Aggression]"I don't know what I may seem to the world, but as to myself, I seem to have been only like a boy playing on the sea-shore and diverting myself in now and then finding a smoother pebble or a prettier shell than ordinary, whilst the great ocean of truth lay all undiscovered before me" [Isaac Newton]
"Nature, and Nature's laws lay hid in night"
"God said, Let Newton be! and all was light" [Alexander Pope Epitaph: Intended for Sir Isaac Newton]
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Hi David,
You're probably right, no debating from me either.
Still, I find it very interesting how science evolved. I think it's amazing that, at one time, people may not have considered the benefits of actually creating a test to ascertain the certainty of their ideas, at least their testable ones.
One neat example, from mankind's original (untested but seemingly obvious idea) that a heavier object falls faster than a lighter one (excluding air resistance). The experiment was conducted, originally, by Galileo in his famous Leaning Tower of Pisa demonstration, but it was best exemplified to the public on the moon when astronaut David Scott dropped a feather and a hammer at the same time, with both landing on the moon's surface also at the same time.
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Hi David,
Yes, it's true. Science can never answer the deep questions like what is the purpose of life, my life, any life, or what does the universe mean or does God exist and, if so, why, or why not...things like that. I think it may be for many reasons mostly having to do with what science is about which may be simply a way to find out how God constructed the natural world and how it works, as we can see it. I can't figure out any other reason for science to exist and even this reason, or rather, the scientific theories that result from man's searches using this methodology, is limited relative to the search that led you to God.
Of course those with a scientific bent will try to explain your search for God along psychological paths, and they may even make sense to many who listen with an open mind, but any explanation will not come close to describing the feelings you've had in your journey, unless maybe the psychological explanation was rendered via some art form, like poetry or paintings or music or something similar and, even then, you may feel it doesn't do justice, that only a person actually experiencing what you've experienced can know it, at least like you do.
If I'm not overreaching here, you've piqued my curiosity. What experiments did you perform that confirmed your answers to questions you had but didn't have answers for, the "certainty" that you discovered? I don't think it can be measured scientifically, like I've said above, but if you actually performed an experiment as you described, can you detail it here? If not, I understand.
Thanks again for your gentle and thoughtful responses here. I'm learning a lot from you.
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Hello Kathleen,
Is funny that you should bring that up. One of the reasons why I was blown away with the bible when God saved me, was because I had spent my life researching every topic under heaven I could get my hands on (I still dedicate time here and there to catch up with the latest finding), but for the most all I found were hypothesis and theories to the most profound questions of life. Like most I am appreciative of all the advances of science and look forward to new discoveries, but I was always left empty in the deepest recesses of my being. The findings were interesting and exciting, but they did nothing to fill a void in my life that I didn't even know I had until God saved me one night.
One of the things about God that capture my heart, intellect and sojourner spirit, is that unlike most of the things in life I had encountered and believe me I tried a bunch of stuff, the things that God declares will happen when we do what He tells us to do, DO HAPPEN. It was and it remains an amazing truth. Most things in this life do yield a temporary pleasure, but is just that - temporary. However the things pertaining to God and Godliness do not only hold an eternal value, but the peace and joy that comes with God's commands is permanent and nothing on this side of heaven can permanently disturb those God given gifts.
I took the approached you mentioned that many don’t take, by considering the benefit of actually creating a test to ascertain the certainty of what I was learning in the word of God, the bible. I figure that if it was really the word of God, then what it states will happen when one practices its advice should happen and if it didn't, than it was empty and void of truth. But to my amazement and millions can attest to this truth, the Word of God has never failed me. God has been faithful and true to his word.
Like any scientific finding or experiment the problem is that most people think they know something without actually testing that something. Example: a guy gets a gym membership; he goes for a week never really getting into training, because he finds out that getting the abs he wants takes real discipline. However this guy has the audacity to tell people in future conversations that diets and the gym don't work, hu? What in the world. You get my point. The same thing happens with Christianity, people say all the time that they tried religion, but it didn’t work ha-ha and we say yep religion doesn't work, but relationship with God does. But to have relationship you have to first do what God says to do. You must repent of your sins and receive Christ as Lord and Savior, not by mouthing off the words without a contrite heart about our sin, but a real repentance.
Anyways - sorry again, I went off on one of my tangents there. You are a pretty bright individual, I am sure you get what I am saying, so back to my point, I decided to implement in my life what God teaches throughout his word to see if those things indeed are real. To my astonishment and pleasure God has been true to his word. Everything he says I can attain, accomplish etc... I do, once I get “me” out of the way and do things his way, a lifelong struggle and process, but the most beautiful one that I have ever embarked on. Try it - you will see.
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Kathleen,
>>I think it may be for many reasons mostly having to do with what science is about which may be simply a way to find out how God constructed the natural world and how it works, as we can see it.
One, if not the primary reason for God giving us science is because:
Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Romans 1:19-20 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
God's finger prints can be found all over the creation, hence Science, so we can see the amazing God we have.
I will give you some examples of the things I put to the test a bit later. Thank you for your kind words.
Since this thread is running out of room, use the Reply message box above to continue the diolog. The message will be place as the last message of the discussion. I will follow it there.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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David,
Paul tells Timothy in one of his epistles to take medicine. Luke himself was a doctor. So if you have a born again believer who does not make use of the benefits God has provided for us through doctors than he may teach him through such ordeals that that is not a wise thing to do.
Does God teach people lessons through their illnesses?:)
I have wondered for a long time why many Christians believe it is wrong to seek medical help ... as if it means they are not trusting in God's healing power but in man and apothecary instead. On the other hand, current statistics show that 98,000 people die ever year in the USA alone because of medical errors, which include wrong diagnosis, treatment, and the spread of germs that cause preventable infections, such as simply not properly washing hands between patients or using a simple antiseptic before inserting a PICC line. I'm not kidding. 98,000 deaths per year. However, the number of lives saved per year because of good health care are many more than that ... and at least 28,000 of those lives are saved through organ donation each year (which is ironic in a way).
God can heal anything and everything. He has and does still heal people when is His will to heal them, at times during a time of fasting.
But back to the subject of fasting ... Jesus did say when you fast and not if you fast. I personally look to Jesus as my Healer and ask Him to lead me to the right doctors and medicines, or lead me away from the wrong ones :)
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Permalink Reply by Mary O on
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Is he the only person in his household with these experiences? Or experiences, but a different version? Check to make sure there are no physical causes like carbon monoxide in the house. There are natural explanations sometimes.
Sometimes I can see into the spiritual realm, but not to this extent. It's like his thoughts have gone wild.
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; (2 Corinthians 2:5)
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. (Isaiah 26: 3)
Where there is no knowledge from God, the people wander aimlessly: but he that is kept by the law, walks straight, right, and is happy. (Proberbs 29:18)
If' he is truly seeing into the spiritual realm and doesn't understand, personal opinion, he's almost frozen with fear. He will need a good friend to take his hand and guide him out of this mess. Does he trust you to minister to him? Does he know that if he doesn't change and believe, it will get worse? Have you ever held his hand during an episode and told him to stop it? Or if it's truly real have you prayed during an episode and let God reveal to you what to do?
Love,
Mary
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God bless!
I stopped in at lunch time and answered earlier. A person can be tormented (fear has torment) but not be possessed. Not everyone is possessed. It's just that some of the things happening to him are really out there. It's like he's hallucinating. God is not the author of confusion. I still think he should make sure there's nothing going on physically. I'm not a doctor. My past experiences are pretty weird, but they're mild to what he has going on. Another thought some people are very sensitive to electrical fields like from outlets or old light fixtures. It can cause paranoia and fear. I just think there's more going on than spiritual. It can be both. Ask if he has anything like a ouija board or anything with the curious arts. Such things can open a person to demonic experiences.
Love,
Mary
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