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Is everything God's will?
Yet is is not God's will that ANY should perish yet we know many do. We know it wasn't God's will that Adam and Eve disobey Him yet they did.
I don't believe everything that happens is God's will. God gave us freedom of choice and sometimes our choices may take away another's choice. It's not God's will that it happens but neither will He remove the choice He gave.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Scribe,
God never gives Job the full explanation, which included Satan's accusations and God's decision to allow Satan to harm Job, but through the way God answers Job, yes, Job realizes God's plan is too wonderful for Job to know, which is what I was saying, too. My intelligence is lacking, and I can't wrap my mind around it, either, no more than Job could.
I don't know what your experiences are, but my heart continues to go out to you.
I think Jesus said it well in John 16:33. I know it's difficult to consider that when God's will isn't to heal, then it's God's will for one to suffer with an illness. Yet, Jesus said all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Him. His power is above all other powers. Yes, we are to surrender to God's will, saying not my will but yours be done, but when we disobey, we only have the liberty to disobey simply because it's God's will that we have that liberty.
Jesus overcame. In Him you already are an overcomer. Romans 8:28.
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Amanda, I love your answer and your line of thinking. To me, it shows a lot of maturity and that you have a really good grip on your faith. And I agree - there's some stuff we just don't get to know (not in this life). We must take it by faith that God has it all in his hand in some way, whether he directly causes it or merely permits it - you and I can agree to disagree about the finer points. I'm satisfied with that and I'm satisfied that in the end I can trust God either way. [even though there are some huge questions from events in my own history that I really struggle to believe could be God's purpose and specific plan]
I do want to challenge one thing you have held on to, and I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, but...
If God never revealed all of that to Job... then how did Job know to write it in his book? :)
God is good, all the time and I'm glad to be able to call you my friend.
~Scribe
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Scribe,
Good to hear from you. Thanks for not picking a fight:)
As far as I know, no one is certain who wrote it but Job could be a candidate. I doubt he wrote it since it isn't in the first person and how it begins. It's about Job but there's no indication he is the human author. But my point is that when God answers Job, he doesn't mention in the text of the book Satan's accusations and His decision to let Satan harm Job. We, the reader know, and later on, after the fact, if Job wrote it, sure he knew then, but not until then. I accept that I may never know, either, for the things in my own life.
Job 1
King James Version (KJV)
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Love & Prayers to you my friend. Always. -
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Seek,
Basically, yes. The only thing I would add that that I believe that is not mentioned by Scribe (though I may be missing it or he may believe differently) is that God, as sovereign, has the authority to override our freewill at any time.
Regarding the chair and your knee. It is the will of God to allow for such events to occur and He is fully aware of them even before they come to pass. As sovereign God is in total control and by His on will He has granted man liberties to think and to act on their own. We would have none, including life itself, if not but for the will of God to deem it as so.
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT, I'm confident you are correct: in that God always reserves the right to override our freewill. He's God, we're not. However, more often I see that God completes His purposes while we exercise our freewill. We somehow play right into it. It is simply up to us if we are choosing to be part of His plan for good or part of his allowance for evil.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Seek, I think that if you turn around in your seat and bump your knee on your desk and do that more than a few times, that it would be God's will to learn from your knee hurting all the time. Yet, we will do something over and over that will bring ourselves or others hurt.
Seek, I think it is God's will for you to bring joy into the lives of others as you do. It is God's will that we share with others His love. It is God's will that we are a witness to the many that do not know Him. I think He does allow us to accomplish that in our own ways. Yet, sometimes He steps in and causes things to work out. He works all things to the good that love Him.
That part of God's will that intrigues me the most is the way He chooses those that belong to Him. For instance:
Eph 1:4-5
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, KJV
It is amazing to me that it is God's will that I belong to Him. That just blows me away. I am concerned about the world I live in but realizing that this world is not my home gives me a different perspective that many of the environmetalists here. I know it will last until He makes all things new. I am not sitting around worrying so much about it. We know that God is sovereign and He is absolutely going to take care of us. Maybe that doesn't give us the right to be careless but it does give us a different perspective of viewing our world.
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Permalink Reply by Sathish Kumar ( Dan) on
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Everything is Gods will - he will perfect us to obey and make us humble , this is the whole point
when we get a humble heart which obeys God then everything will work out for our Good
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Sathish, I agree with you in this: having a humble heart that obeys God will always put us in a place where we can receive and give more of God's blessings. (we all receive many already, whether we acknowledge it or not).
However, you cannot say "everything is God's Will". God's Word makes clear that God is not the author of sin; it makes clear that God does not tempt. Therefore, sin and temptation are not His will.
We ought not to make the mistake of seeing the world fatalistically, as though God is out there deliberately causing us to suffer and stumble through this life. God has given us an inheritance in Christ so that we may be overcomers in this life. Yes, it is by walking through the suffering and difficulty of this life that we learn to overcome. Doing so requires obedience to God in the face of trials and tragedy.
That fatalism is the mark of false religion such as Islam or Hinduism, where every evil and sorrow is seen as the sovereign choice of a cruel tyrant god or the bad karma someone has earned in a past life. Therefore every manner of wickedness done by a supposedly devout person is somehow fulfilling the Will of God or fulfilling karma. No: It is God's Will that we extend mercy to the sufferer, that we offer food to the hungry, that we offer freedom to the oppressed. That is the Will of God. We are agents of redemption, ambassadors of reconciliation. We are called to be like our Father in Heaven who causes the blessing of rain to fall on the just and the unjust. We are given the light to share with those in darkness.
Is it necessary that we face adversity? Yes, because this world is adverse and you don't run away from it like a coward, you face it and overcome it. But God is not sitting in Heaven waiting to drop a shoe on you. He is not plotting your misery. Our Father in Heaven is calling us to pray for His will to be done, so that earth may more reflect Heaven's glory.
The obedience Our Father calls us to is the obedience of being life-givers, truth tellers, hope builders, witnesses of all that is Good. For every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights. I believe we are not called to merely wait for something good to happen, but to be the good that we want to happen. This is how we live out the Will of God.
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First, let's put the quote up: "...for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake."
This is, of course, referring to Saul of Tarsus when the Lord sent Ananias the faithful disciple at Damascus to lay hands on Saul (later known as Paul the Apostle). Ananias had an immediate reaction that Saul was a threat to the church. Jesus comforts Ananias that Saul isn't going to be that guy anymore, he's actually going to suffer for the Gospel now, like the other believers already were doing.
So, the question is then: did Saul's salvation have a condition to it? Was He required to suffer in order to receive salvation? When you put it in that context, it immediately becomes evident that this would violate what Paul himself taught, that salvation is by grace through faith, not of works. Is Jesus inconsistent? Not possible, according to what Paul's own letters say. Indeed, John, Paul and Peter each acknowledge that their salvation was secured before the foundation of the world - and each confirm that salvation is a free gift.
So... what does Jesus mean? What is he saying to Ananias? You could replace the term "must" with the term "necessarily" and not lose the contextual meaning of "must". In other words, Jesus is saying that Saul would become a new man, and in as much would become every bit a disciple as Ananias himself and therefore would suffer. (as He said "in this world you will have trouble" and "if they hated me, they will hate you") So, his point was not to say that He was going to torture Saul as a punishment, but rather that since Saul will become fully saved and zealous for the willingly taking on the responsibility of taking the Gospel to the world, he will suffer just as you and the rest have suffered. Why? because "it goes with the territory", as we say in the western USA.
Did Paul the Apostle get forced into suffering for Jesus namesake? Nope. He willingly accepted it. He eagerly said "bring it on!" Because he knew that the cost of reaching people for the Lord meant enduring hardship, accepting trials. He fully embraced the "power of the cross" and "died to self".
It helps to consider Hebrews 11:35 where it says "Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:"
see this comparative review of the verse in both KJV and NASB: http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=better%20resurrection&a...
To validate that point: apparently, Paul had the choice to die and end his suffering. But he chose to remain in prison and continue his ministry for the sake of the churches who looked to him as their guide. "...I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake." (Philippians 1:23-25)
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Still, the fact that it goes with the territory means it's within God's will. It was within God's will for Paul to suffer in his ministry. God could have prevented all of it -- the stonings, the shipwrecks, all of it. The same is true for us all. If you think about illness for instance, God has the power to heal someone but when healing doesn't come, it is within God's will that it doesn't come. Some one might say, well it's the person's fault that they aren't healed -- poor faith or not giving up sin, etc ... But, still, whatever the reason is that healing doesn't come, it's God's will not to heal the person. It's never that God can't, but will God? Even in Hebrews 11:35, what they suffered was within God's will for them as they persevered in faith just as much as being raised to life again was in God's will for the other ones. Sorry, Scribe. We will have to agree to disagree.
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