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IS CHRISTIANITY UNDER ATTACK?
DEFINITELY!!! CHRISTIANITY IS UNDER ATTACK AND CHRIST FOLLOWING DISCIPLES MUST REALISE THIS AND TAKE ACTION!
Tom DeLay says there is a "war on Christianity" in America
Evangelical Christians met up for a Washington event called War on Christians and the Values Voters of 2006 this week. Speakers gave impassioned testimonies about Christian persecution across the country.
At the event, Tom DeLay had this to say,
"We are, after all, a society that abides abortion on demand, has killed millions of innocent children, degrades the institution of marriage and often treats Christianity like some second-rate superstition. Seen from this perspective of course there is a war on Christianity."
TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: It's not just me, Chris. A poll by the anti-defamation league end of last year, 64 percent of Americans say religion in America is under attack. Eighty percent of evangelicals agree that religion in this country, in particular, Christianity, is under attack.
MATTHEWS: What are the specifics of that charge?
PERKINS: Well, clearly, it's not a war on Christianity like we talked about last week with Abdul Rahman and what he was under, but it's a hostility nonetheless. I mean, just last week in San Francisco, 25,000 young evangelicals gathered there for a rally, and the board of supervisors passed a resolution.
It's first time I've ever seen a legislature pass a resolution condemning them as a right-wing Christian fundamentalist group that spreads hate. That was the official language. I mean, you see that. You see Indiana were the legislature there no longer allowed to open their sessions in prayer, if they pray in the name of Jesus.
I mean, you ask any parent if America today, they're concerned. Their kids cannot pray in school, graduations, football games, no prayer, even the pledge.
MATTHEWS: But those are court decisions, aren't they?
PERKINS: They are court decisions, but nonetheless it is a branch of government and most of the time spurred on by the ACLU, that many times is funded with taxpayer dollars.
MATTHEWS: Reverend Sharpton, do you think that Christianity and religion as such are under attack by our secular institutions?
REV. AL SHARPTON, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: I think there's a difference when you say that polls say religion is under attack and saying Christianity is under attack and then acting as if Christianity and the right-wing are synonymous. I think that the right wing has got Christianity under attack or Christianity that was the basis of the Civil Rights Movement and the anti-war movement.
It's certainly not the Christianity that they are talking about. So I think that we've got to really narrow in what we're talking about, and to say that someone stops a prayer that makes others that may pray a different way feel like they're being imposed upon and then to act like the symbol of Christianity is Tom DeLay is a great leap. And I think that is where many of us that are Christian are offended by this group trying to misuse these kinds of situations.
MATTHEWS: Do you believe, Tony, that you feel under attack? Or is this a clever marketing tool?
PERKINS: No.
MATTHEWS: You know, if you say circle the wagons to anybody, that's a great way to get them rallied, that's a way to get them juiced up, and they may vote more frequently. They may get out there and vote, where if they don't feel under attack they're not going to vote. It's human nature.
Related content
Read the 'Hardball' blog -- Hardblogger
'Hardball' homepage
NOW THAT YOU HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE ABOVE, I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE SOMETHING THAT I HAVE TRULY "STUDIED" AND IT HAS BROUGHT ME TO MY KNEES IN PRAYER FOR "CHRISTIANITY" WHICH I SHOULD REALLY CALL " CHRIST FOLLOWING DISCIPLESHIP":
The Lie: Evolution
Genesis 1:1 & Romans 1:17-25
As Contributed By Rev. James Moses
These are from a series on Creation vs. Evolution. The info came from Ken Ham (Back to Genesis) and Arlo E. Moehlenpah, D.Sc.(He taught at CLC Stockton, CA.)
Christianity is Under Attack
Years ago, our society was based on Christian absolutes. People knew what was right and what was wrong. Behaviors such as sexual deviancy, easy divorce, public lawlessness, abortion on demand, pornography, and public nudity were considered to be wrong. Varying punishments for offenders were meted out by society. Value judgments were basically built on biblical principles (for example, the Ten Commandments). Most people accepted or respected a belief in God.
Recently more and more people have rejected the God of the Bible. As belief in God has been abandoned, people have questioned the basis of the society in which they live. For instance, if there is no God, then why should they obey the Ten Commandments? Why should anyone say that homosexuality is wrong? Why should women be barred from having abortions whenever they desire? Once people eliminated God from their consciences, they set about to change any laws based on Christian absolutes that held god as Creator (and thus owner) of everything.
Christian absolutes have been diluted or removed as the basis of society and replaced with a world view that says, "We do not have to accept that the Christian way of doing things (basing our world and life view on biblical principles) is the only way; we must tolerate all religious beliefs and ways of life." However, this "tolerance" really means an intolerance of the absolutes of Christianity. This false idea of tolerance has subtly undermined Christianity, and most Christians have not recognized what was really happening. Many Christians have been deceived into believing they have no right to impose their views on society. We are told, for instance, that anti-abortionists have no business impressing their particular bias on society. Have you ever heard anyone say this about the pro-abortion groups? The result is one bias being imposed on society by the pro-abortionists - legalized abortion on demand! No matter what you do, you cannot avoid the fact that a view is being imposed on someone by someone. There is no such thing as neutrality, although many Christians become ensnared in the trap of believing there is.
The idea of open-mindedness comes from the notion that there is no such thing as absolute truth, or that truth cannot be absolutely known. Some say, "There are no absolutes." Ironically, this premise has become their one absolute. Such ideas are derived from an anti-biblical philosophy, which holds that everything is relative.
Christian absolutes - those truths and standards of Scripture, which cannot be altered - are becoming less and less tolerated in society. Eventually this will result in the outlawing of Christianity. When Christian absolutes were the basis of society, immoral activities such as homosexual or lesbian lifestyles and pornography were outlawed. There has been a fundamental shift. Our society is now based on a relative morality: that is, a person can do what he likes and is answerable to no one but himself as long as the majority of people can be persuaded that their interests are not being threatened. This results in society's being told that no one can say anything against those who choose to be sexual deviants, go naked publicly, or do whatever they want (within the limits of the law, which is also changing to become more "tolerant" of people's actions).
Most people have the wrong idea about what the creation/evolution question involves. Instead of perceiving the real issue, they have been deceived into believing that evolution is science. It is not a science at all. It is a belief system about the past. We do not have access to the past. We only have the present. All the fossils, all the living animals and plants, our planet, the universe - everything exists in the present. We cannot directly test the past using the scientific method (which involves repeating things and watching them happen) since all evidence that we have is in the present.
It is important to understand that special creation, by definition, is also a belief about the past. The difference is that creationists base their understanding of creation upon a book which claims to be the Word of the One who was there, who knows everything there is to know about everything, and who tells us what happened. Evolution comes from the words of men who were not there and who do not claim to be omniscient. This whole issue revolves around whether we believe the words of God who was there, or the words of fallible humans (no matter how qualified) who were not there.
Atheists, agnostics and revelations (and theists) hold to religious positions; and what they do with the evidence will again be determined by the assumptions (beliefs) of their religious positions. It is not a matter of whether one is biased or not. It is really a question of which bias is the best bias with which to be biased.
The reader needs to be aware that, when we discuss creation/evolution, in both instances we are talking about beliefs, that is, religion. The controversy is not religion versus science, as the evolutionists try to make out. It is religion versus religion, the science of one religion versus the science of the other.
Evolution is a religious position that makes human opinion supreme. As we shall see, its fruits (because of rejection of the Creator and Lawgiver) are lawlessness, immorality, impurity, abortion, racism, and a mocking of God. Creation is a religious position based on the Word of God, and its fruits (through God's Spirit) are love, joy peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The creation/evolution issue (is God Creator?) is the crux of the problems in our society today. It is the fundamental issue with which Christians must come to grips. The creation/evolution issue is where the battle really rages.
The Root of the Problem
Why do evolutionists not want to admit that evolution is really a religion? It is related to the fact that whatever you believe about your origins does affect your whole world-view, the meaning of life, etc. If there is no God and we are the result of chance random processes, it means there is no absolute authority. And if there is no one who sets the rules, then everyone can do whatever he likes or hopes he can get away with. Evolution is a religion, which enables people to justify writing their own rules.
The real battle is aligned with the fact that these people do not want to accept Christianity because they will not accept that there is a God to whom they are answerable. Perhaps this is why one evolutionist lecturer said: "You will never convince me that evolution is religion." In other words, no matter what we were able to show him concerning the nature of evolution, he refused to accept that it was a religion. He did not want to accept that he had a faith because then he would have to admit it was a blind faith. And he would not be able to say that it was the right faith.
The public has genuinely been misled into thinking that evolution is only scientific and belief in God is only religious. Evolution is causing many people to stumble and not listen when Christians share with them the truth of the God of creation. You will notice in humanist opposition (through debates, the media, books, etc.) to the creation ministries that they very rarely identify any evidence for evolution. The main reason is, of course, that there is none.
Genesis Does Matter- It Gives Us A Foundation
Let us look in detail at some important Christian doctrines, to show why this emphasis on a literal Genesis must be accepted.
Suppose that we are being questioned concerning the doctrines Christians believe. Think carefully how you would answer in detail:
Why do we believe in marriage?
Why do we promote the wearing of clothes?
Why are there rules - right and wrong?
Why are we sinners - what does that mean?
Why is there death and suffering in the world?
We will consider each one carefully, as it is important to have reasons for what we believe. In fact, God expects His children to be ready to give answers - to give reasons for what they believe. In 1 Peter 3:15 we read, "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear."
Christianity, as distinct from atheism, is not a "blind" faith, but an objective one…our object is Jesus Christ.
He does reveal himself to those who come by faith believing that He is. John 14:21 says, "And I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." Hebrews 11:6 "For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."
If reasons for the validity of the Christian's faith are not forthcoming, His witness is weakened and open to ridicule. Christians must be prepared to make an intelligent defense of the gospel by arming themselves with knowledge and an understanding of the form unbelief takes in these days. Many Christians do not know how to communicate the fact that God's Word and God's laws are true. The net result is generations of wishy-washy Christians who believe in many things, but are not sure why. Personal witnessing can lose its impact if the Christian fails to share intelligent reasons for his faith. This must be avoided, lest ridicule and dishonor come to the name of Christ.
Tom DeLay says there is a "war on Christianity" in America
Evangelical Christians met up for a Washington event called War on Christians and the Values Voters of 2006 this week. Speakers gave impassioned testimonies about Christian persecution across the country.
At the event, Tom DeLay had this to say,
"We are, after all, a society that abides abortion on demand, has killed millions of innocent children, degrades the institution of marriage and often treats Christianity like some second-rate superstition. Seen from this perspective of course there is a war on Christianity."
TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: It's not just me, Chris. A poll by the anti-defamation league end of last year, 64 percent of Americans say religion in America is under attack. Eighty percent of evangelicals agree that religion in this country, in particular, Christianity, is under attack.
MATTHEWS: What are the specifics of that charge?
PERKINS: Well, clearly, it's not a war on Christianity like we talked about last week with Abdul Rahman and what he was under, but it's a hostility nonetheless. I mean, just last week in San Francisco, 25,000 young evangelicals gathered there for a rally, and the board of supervisors passed a resolution.
It's first time I've ever seen a legislature pass a resolution condemning them as a right-wing Christian fundamentalist group that spreads hate. That was the official language. I mean, you see that. You see Indiana were the legislature there no longer allowed to open their sessions in prayer, if they pray in the name of Jesus.
I mean, you ask any parent if America today, they're concerned. Their kids cannot pray in school, graduations, football games, no prayer, even the pledge.
MATTHEWS: But those are court decisions, aren't they?
PERKINS: They are court decisions, but nonetheless it is a branch of government and most of the time spurred on by the ACLU, that many times is funded with taxpayer dollars.
MATTHEWS: Reverend Sharpton, do you think that Christianity and religion as such are under attack by our secular institutions?
REV. AL SHARPTON, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: I think there's a difference when you say that polls say religion is under attack and saying Christianity is under attack and then acting as if Christianity and the right-wing are synonymous. I think that the right wing has got Christianity under attack or Christianity that was the basis of the Civil Rights Movement and the anti-war movement.
It's certainly not the Christianity that they are talking about. So I think that we've got to really narrow in what we're talking about, and to say that someone stops a prayer that makes others that may pray a different way feel like they're being imposed upon and then to act like the symbol of Christianity is Tom DeLay is a great leap. And I think that is where many of us that are Christian are offended by this group trying to misuse these kinds of situations.
MATTHEWS: Do you believe, Tony, that you feel under attack? Or is this a clever marketing tool?
PERKINS: No.
MATTHEWS: You know, if you say circle the wagons to anybody, that's a great way to get them rallied, that's a way to get them juiced up, and they may vote more frequently. They may get out there and vote, where if they don't feel under attack they're not going to vote. It's human nature.
Related content
Read the 'Hardball' blog -- Hardblogger
'Hardball' homepage
NOW THAT YOU HAVE HAD A CHANCE TO READ THE ABOVE, I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE SOMETHING THAT I HAVE TRULY "STUDIED" AND IT HAS BROUGHT ME TO MY KNEES IN PRAYER FOR "CHRISTIANITY" WHICH I SHOULD REALLY CALL " CHRIST FOLLOWING DISCIPLESHIP":
The Lie: Evolution
Genesis 1:1 & Romans 1:17-25
As Contributed By Rev. James Moses
These are from a series on Creation vs. Evolution. The info came from Ken Ham (Back to Genesis) and Arlo E. Moehlenpah, D.Sc.(He taught at CLC Stockton, CA.)
Christianity is Under Attack
Years ago, our society was based on Christian absolutes. People knew what was right and what was wrong. Behaviors such as sexual deviancy, easy divorce, public lawlessness, abortion on demand, pornography, and public nudity were considered to be wrong. Varying punishments for offenders were meted out by society. Value judgments were basically built on biblical principles (for example, the Ten Commandments). Most people accepted or respected a belief in God.
Recently more and more people have rejected the God of the Bible. As belief in God has been abandoned, people have questioned the basis of the society in which they live. For instance, if there is no God, then why should they obey the Ten Commandments? Why should anyone say that homosexuality is wrong? Why should women be barred from having abortions whenever they desire? Once people eliminated God from their consciences, they set about to change any laws based on Christian absolutes that held god as Creator (and thus owner) of everything.
Christian absolutes have been diluted or removed as the basis of society and replaced with a world view that says, "We do not have to accept that the Christian way of doing things (basing our world and life view on biblical principles) is the only way; we must tolerate all religious beliefs and ways of life." However, this "tolerance" really means an intolerance of the absolutes of Christianity. This false idea of tolerance has subtly undermined Christianity, and most Christians have not recognized what was really happening. Many Christians have been deceived into believing they have no right to impose their views on society. We are told, for instance, that anti-abortionists have no business impressing their particular bias on society. Have you ever heard anyone say this about the pro-abortion groups? The result is one bias being imposed on society by the pro-abortionists - legalized abortion on demand! No matter what you do, you cannot avoid the fact that a view is being imposed on someone by someone. There is no such thing as neutrality, although many Christians become ensnared in the trap of believing there is.
The idea of open-mindedness comes from the notion that there is no such thing as absolute truth, or that truth cannot be absolutely known. Some say, "There are no absolutes." Ironically, this premise has become their one absolute. Such ideas are derived from an anti-biblical philosophy, which holds that everything is relative.
Christian absolutes - those truths and standards of Scripture, which cannot be altered - are becoming less and less tolerated in society. Eventually this will result in the outlawing of Christianity. When Christian absolutes were the basis of society, immoral activities such as homosexual or lesbian lifestyles and pornography were outlawed. There has been a fundamental shift. Our society is now based on a relative morality: that is, a person can do what he likes and is answerable to no one but himself as long as the majority of people can be persuaded that their interests are not being threatened. This results in society's being told that no one can say anything against those who choose to be sexual deviants, go naked publicly, or do whatever they want (within the limits of the law, which is also changing to become more "tolerant" of people's actions).
Most people have the wrong idea about what the creation/evolution question involves. Instead of perceiving the real issue, they have been deceived into believing that evolution is science. It is not a science at all. It is a belief system about the past. We do not have access to the past. We only have the present. All the fossils, all the living animals and plants, our planet, the universe - everything exists in the present. We cannot directly test the past using the scientific method (which involves repeating things and watching them happen) since all evidence that we have is in the present.
It is important to understand that special creation, by definition, is also a belief about the past. The difference is that creationists base their understanding of creation upon a book which claims to be the Word of the One who was there, who knows everything there is to know about everything, and who tells us what happened. Evolution comes from the words of men who were not there and who do not claim to be omniscient. This whole issue revolves around whether we believe the words of God who was there, or the words of fallible humans (no matter how qualified) who were not there.
Atheists, agnostics and revelations (and theists) hold to religious positions; and what they do with the evidence will again be determined by the assumptions (beliefs) of their religious positions. It is not a matter of whether one is biased or not. It is really a question of which bias is the best bias with which to be biased.
The reader needs to be aware that, when we discuss creation/evolution, in both instances we are talking about beliefs, that is, religion. The controversy is not religion versus science, as the evolutionists try to make out. It is religion versus religion, the science of one religion versus the science of the other.
Evolution is a religious position that makes human opinion supreme. As we shall see, its fruits (because of rejection of the Creator and Lawgiver) are lawlessness, immorality, impurity, abortion, racism, and a mocking of God. Creation is a religious position based on the Word of God, and its fruits (through God's Spirit) are love, joy peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. The creation/evolution issue (is God Creator?) is the crux of the problems in our society today. It is the fundamental issue with which Christians must come to grips. The creation/evolution issue is where the battle really rages.
The Root of the Problem
Why do evolutionists not want to admit that evolution is really a religion? It is related to the fact that whatever you believe about your origins does affect your whole world-view, the meaning of life, etc. If there is no God and we are the result of chance random processes, it means there is no absolute authority. And if there is no one who sets the rules, then everyone can do whatever he likes or hopes he can get away with. Evolution is a religion, which enables people to justify writing their own rules.
The real battle is aligned with the fact that these people do not want to accept Christianity because they will not accept that there is a God to whom they are answerable. Perhaps this is why one evolutionist lecturer said: "You will never convince me that evolution is religion." In other words, no matter what we were able to show him concerning the nature of evolution, he refused to accept that it was a religion. He did not want to accept that he had a faith because then he would have to admit it was a blind faith. And he would not be able to say that it was the right faith.
The public has genuinely been misled into thinking that evolution is only scientific and belief in God is only religious. Evolution is causing many people to stumble and not listen when Christians share with them the truth of the God of creation. You will notice in humanist opposition (through debates, the media, books, etc.) to the creation ministries that they very rarely identify any evidence for evolution. The main reason is, of course, that there is none.
Genesis Does Matter- It Gives Us A Foundation
Let us look in detail at some important Christian doctrines, to show why this emphasis on a literal Genesis must be accepted.
Suppose that we are being questioned concerning the doctrines Christians believe. Think carefully how you would answer in detail:
Why do we believe in marriage?
Why do we promote the wearing of clothes?
Why are there rules - right and wrong?
Why are we sinners - what does that mean?
Why is there death and suffering in the world?
We will consider each one carefully, as it is important to have reasons for what we believe. In fact, God expects His children to be ready to give answers - to give reasons for what they believe. In 1 Peter 3:15 we read, "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear."
Christianity, as distinct from atheism, is not a "blind" faith, but an objective one…our object is Jesus Christ.
He does reveal himself to those who come by faith believing that He is. John 14:21 says, "And I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." Hebrews 11:6 "For he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him."
If reasons for the validity of the Christian's faith are not forthcoming, His witness is weakened and open to ridicule. Christians must be prepared to make an intelligent defense of the gospel by arming themselves with knowledge and an understanding of the form unbelief takes in these days. Many Christians do not know how to communicate the fact that God's Word and God's laws are true. The net result is generations of wishy-washy Christians who believe in many things, but are not sure why. Personal witnessing can lose its impact if the Christian fails to share intelligent reasons for his faith. This must be avoided, lest ridicule and dishonor come to the name of Christ.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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Hi "Skattie and all on AAG"
"Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8
The world is heading down a path that was prophesied by none less than Jesus Himself. How do we who hold the truth, slow down this reckless rush to a lost eternity? We need to take care, because there are times when we are too intrepid and audacious when witnessing to the lost.
I listened to two men in a heated discussion:
Christian: "For the life of me I cannot understand why you are against Christians and the Bible?
All we want to do is create a deep sense of morality by opposing immorality in the world today."
Stranger: "What do you mean by immoral or immorality?"
Christian: "Godlessness, murder, rape, theft, abortion, homosexuality.......
Stranger: "I am a homosexual, how dare you call me immoral? Who do you think you are? That is the problem with you Christians, everyone in your sight except Christians, are immoral. I see no love in any Christian except hate speeches against what you call "Moffies" and other degrading names. Worse still you see us as morally, degraded and not worthy of being your friend or even in your company. Little wonder all my friends and I hate to listen to you.
So called "Moffies have more love for people in their big toe than you have in your whole body."
This was more or less what was said as I remember. It turned into a useless, ugly argument that raised tempers but certainly not a single agreement from either of them.
The Christian was not expecting the verbal assault and possibly jumped into the discussion without thinking ahead or necessary experience in witnessing.
My question to the group then is this: "How would you, or how should we tackle this particular problem, should we ever find ourselves confronted with this form of hate speech?
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Permalink Reply by Darlene on
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Bev, I believe there are times when we must stand for Who and what we believe. I'm not saying we need to fight everything we see as evil, but we must stand for truth. We can't be as cautious as others might want us to be.
As you know, Jesus is the way, the truth and the life.
Darlene
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Permalink Reply by Ramona P. Jacobsz on
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Dear Sisters
I totally agree. Jesus is the WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE...
see my further discussion which I shall place.
Most respectfully - and definitely not seeking division nor arguments... but the truth.
Ramona
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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......Hi Ron, indeed a great challenge! The Lord has really put this on my heart lately. so...i will tackle this in the form of a practise response....here goes:
Response to Stranger:
You are right! Many times Christians in their zest for truth will steam roll over and into a persons life. It is sad.....brutal even, that people who have the greatest message of Love in the Universe can be so unloving with it. I truly believe the intentions of Christians are good. If we lived in the time of Jesus, we would hear Him say "If there is one amongst you who has not sinned, let him throw the first stone". We are not the judge. We keep forgetting that! We are simply messengers delivering a truth....But it is supposed to be so much more than that. All truth and no Love is brutality. So on behalf of Christians, I apologize that you have been judged and hurt. That's not what God wants for you. HE wants you to know that HE loves you. End of Story.
.....Hopefully this will lead to some open dialogue so that the gospel of Christ can then be presented to them. God's plan, and how sin has separated us from God. But because of Jesus we are saved. We cannot compromise the truth of scripture, so we must be loving always....Truth presented in a loving manner is the only way. We must remember we are not the judge... Remember to pray always.....The Holy Spirit needs to be doing the work. We must control our tongues, and always keep in mind how God loves that person. The person is of invaluable worth to God. 1 Corinthians 13 is becoming my 'life chapter'. All truth and no Love is brutality.
Whose Love????
God's Love!!!
There is no way we can on our own be loving in the way that God calls us to be. It is with HIS Love.
Oh Lord...teach us how to Love Your way. Teach us selfless giving Love---You before Me Love. In Jesus name. Amen
This kind of Love is an act of Will--a choice....but only in God's Strength, God's Compassion, God's Passion, God's Mercy....God's Love! Let yourself feel God's Love.....be moved to tears over the fact that the person you are speaking to does not know Jesus.....We who have the greatest message of Love in the Universe, can be so unloving with it....When we are, we are being brutal..and cruel. And it does more harm than good!
Lord we Love You....let us live that Love out as we respond in the world to others...particularly those who don't know You. In Jesus name. Amen!
Love in Christ, Carla
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Permalink Reply by Brooke on
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This is something I am learning right now aswell. This is the number one rule of witnessing:
If we cannot speak to a person in the same compassion that Christ had, then we shouldnt speak. I have fallen short from this many times, myself. It is true, that we at times come off way too strong and confident because we know what are Lord has promised us. But we must come in love and not attack, but show them a different way of thinking, one that they might recieve instantly, or a few years down the road or not at all. Two people can look at the same thing and see two totally different things. It is always are job above all things to have the love of god in our hearts and to show it to others at all times. I do believe there are times to speak up for the truth and times to lay low.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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There are several issues that have been brought up in this discussion. I will take a stab at a couple of them from my point of view.
1) Is Christianity under attack: When is Christianity not under attack? Since Christ came and people began following Him there has been opposition to Jesus and His followers. Jesus clearly taught that we would face persecution because of Him (Mat. 5:11, 10:22, 24:9; Mk. 13:13 and Lk. 21:17). All of the apostles, except John, were killed for their faith. Paul's experience is wide open for us to see in the Book Acts. The first, second and third century Christians we persecuted and killed for their faith. Jump ahead. We have people being attacked for their faith today around the globe. This should not surprise us. It is what Jesus said would take place. I realize that the post is really talking about our Christian freedoms in the U.S. which are eroding at an amazing rate. Should America think that it was above the hate toward Christ when there has been a slow and steady erosion of the foundation of this country over the last 100 years and especially last 50? This does not mean that we give up or give in, but we need to be aware of the battle in which we are engaged. Ephesians 6:12 clearly outlines this as follows, "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms." The starting point to sustaining the war is prayer, an engagement that more and more Christians are forgoing for other activities. The proof of this is the poor attendance at church prayer gatherings, if they have them at all anymore. I will try not to drift much. Back to the issue, our battle is against the forces of darkness, yet at the same time we must exercise our privileges, that are to vote and speak out on behalf of what we believe.
2) Regarding witnessing: (My first comment here ties into the national issue as well) Too many Christians feel that it is their responsibility to defend the Bible and God. Neither needs defending. God's Word cannot be thwarted or destroyed. We simply need to stand for it and share it. God is not worried about the humans that say evil things about Him. He is not afraid of their banter. He is God and will not change. Satan already knows the futility of such aggression against God, now he focuses upon humankind. In 1969 (If my memory serves me) the New York Times proclaimed on the front page that "God is Dead." That proclamation does not make it so. The created thing cannot direct the Creator. I do not attempt to defend God or the Bible. I share Him and the Word. If people reject the Word, they will not be convinced no matter what I say. Jesus was clear about that in the parable of the "Rich Man and Lazarus when He said the following, "He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' "Abraham replied, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' " `No, father Abraham,' he said, `but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' "He said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "(Lk. 16:27-31). This couple with the truth of John 16:8-11 leaves us with the reality that it is God's Word and Spirit that will lead people to repentance and true salvation. John 16:8-11 says, "When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment: in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me; in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer; and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned."
This leads me to the idea of how to witness. Some are afraid that if they speak they will be ridiculed. Some fear that they will appear to aggressive. One cannot simply hope that their good life style will be enough to draw people to faith. Two reasons this is not enough. 1) "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn. 6:44). 2) "Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). These two verse again tie into the Luke 16 and John 16 teaching. It is the Father, the Holy Spirit and the Word. We are simply the presenters of the truth, not the truth itself. We are evidence of His grace, but not grantors of it.
Next question is "why are some so aggressive and forceful in their style?" It has been my experience that in most cases the aggressive and gentle fall into two camps (there are exceptions). The aggressive have taken a legalistic point of view regarding God's law and try to get people to stop breaking His law. They set out to defend God and His Word, thinking that they can change society. Those who are gentle tend to come from the "grace" camp. They are not worried as much about defending the Word or God as they are concerned about the soul destined to hell for eternity. They have experienced God's grace and want to share His love and grace so that the lost may receive life. One attacks the sin, sin is their focus. The other is searching to reach a soul that they may be saved.
I apologize for the length, but in order to clarify my thought it must be so. Think about this for a minute. Has God permitted the sinful to have physical life even though they sin against Him? Has He destroyed them already, or does He hope that they will come to salvation. God hates the sin and yet provided a way to salvation for that very sinner, including me. A day will come when people will stand before God. The saved will experience His presence forever. Those still lost in their sins will be lost forever. Note that this judgment is in God's timing. He gives them the freedom to sin in this life. That does not mean He likes it, condones it or let's it go unnoticed. But if God is not raining down fire who are we to try and condemn others before their appointed time. To reach out to the lost is our goal and to reach them with His love and grace through His Word and Spirit are our goal.
Last thing. We are to sound the alarm. We are to warn people of their coming peril. God gives us that illustration over and over in His Word. How many times did God send a prophet to warn Israel of the impending judgment if they did not repent and return to Him? God sent a reluctant Jonah to Nineveh and to Jonah's dismay, they repented and were spared God's judgment. In Noah's day they ignored the Word of the Lord for 120 years and then the judgment came. What about the angels sent to Sodom and Gomorrah? We are here to warn and to direct, yet people have the freedom to reject and if they choose to do so, they will stand before God's judgment seat.
I share the gospel unashamedly and preach the Word, including condemning sin. I share the gospel with love for the lost, because I was once lost and know what I have been saved from and to Whom I have been saved. I want people to meet Jesus. God does not need me to defend Him. He wants me to share Him. We can love God and our fellow man while not compromising at the same time.
"Jesus replied: " `Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."" (Mat. 22:37-40) and "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance." (2 Pe. 3:9)
There are other aspects to this, such as things within the church, but the post is referring to the world.
Not sure how much sense this will make, but it was therapeutic for me to jot it down.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Dear LT
Thanks for the comment. Sincrely appreciated. I have been reading so much - it is sometimes mind boggling... I realise that GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD THAT HE SENT HIS OLY SON TO SAVE US. But I do think that even I, as a Child of God have not defended His Word and I realised that Jesus was loving but also very firm about SIN. Certainly He loves us but He hates sin and at the moment the world is turning into a Sodom and Gomorrah. I do not condemn nor judge the sinners but GOD will. I hate telling people about hell and brimstone... and I BELIEVE IN THE 12TH HOUR CONVERSION. God does give Grace... almost far in excess of what one expects. But I read and want explicit explanations of Jesus having divided people... He came to save but He also I have experienced His mercy and Grace. For I know that I am not WITHOUT SIN... Sin is in the mind... and the Bible clearly states if we have contravened one Commandment" Romans 3:23 says "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." When the Bible says that you and I have sinned, it means that we lie, we lust, we hate, we murder, etc.
Of course, I do not believe that because of this we are doomed to go to hell BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN CHRIST'S GRACE - AND OUR FATHER'S LOVE... WHO WOULD LET HIS SON DIE FOR A WORLD SO SINFUL???
I do hope that the quotations that I made did not offend... I am also seeking answers and I DO BELIEVE THAT THE WHOLE WORLD IS BACKSLIDING!!! We cannot accept the slanderous remarks that Muslims and others are making and sit with our hands folded.
Rightly, I say that we must try to gently and lovingly lead "the lost lambs" to Jesus in love and with kindness. However, I have proof that a very reputable university in South Africa has said the most slanderous things about Christ... and we allow these professors to continue to train our pastors!!! I would not even like to put pen to paper about what one said about Mary and Jesus... (actually insinuating that Jesus is like a Sangoma - which in African tradition is like a witch doctor)... Forgive me - I have to stop because I feel that my blood pressure will not handle this!
What will happen if our pastors go out with the wrong training?
I end with much love in our most WONDERFUL AND POWERFUL SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST
<:))))>
Your Friend
Ramona P.
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Ramona,
Your anxiety over the issue is understandable and my heart goes out to you. You love the Lord and hate (right use of the word) anything that seeks to destroy or discredit it. Take heart. Man has tried to destroy the Word of God without ceasing for centuries, and it still stands. People have taught error since the beginning of the church. Those who have done so are false teachers. We have had them and will continue to have them. We do not ignore them, we expose their lies with the sharing of the truth. Jesus tells us that "truth shall set you free." I will add that we deal with those inside the church differently than those who are outside the church. In the organization I am with any false teacher is expelled.
Regarding the world turning into Sodm and Gomorrah, take heart. It has been doing so since the fall of man. Not trying to be funny, but we actually had a Sodom and Gomorrah showing how wicked man can be. God cleansed the earth in Noah's time. When we read authors like Charles Finney and Andrew Murray, who wrote a 100+ years ago, we would think the world is coming to an end at any moment because of the wickedness upon the earth. We can read A.W. Tozer who died 50+ years ago and read the same concerns. As the end grows near the times will only get worse, to the exception of a revival that will occur from time to time in different places. Yet, all revivals are short lived and the end continues to draw nearer every day.
In your third paragragh, do not be afraid of people being offended. When God's Word is shared (and yes, even in love) many will be offended. God's Word is abrasive to the sinner. To the believer it is both abrasive and comforting.
Regarding the schools that teach error as stated in the last paragraph. They have been with us and will always be with us. What they teach is false and only the presented truth will reveal it as false. Because one claims Jesus is a witch doctor does not make it so. We can pray against such institutions and share the truth, but God has allowed them to exist, and yes, many will follow their false teaching. It should break our hearts that many will be led astray, but you combat this error by sharing the truth. In the U.S. we have denominations that have turned from God's Word and still exists. They debate issues that are clearly sin and are finding ways to ignore God's Word to include people groups into the fold without repentance or change, and are instlling some of these to pastoral positions. I speak against it. I stand up for the truth, but I cannot stop them in the flesh. I can also pray. This is not fatalistic, but a reality. God has given people free choice. Think about the Pharisees that Jesus stood against. He refuted them mostly when they accused Him. He did not cause them to cease during His lifetime. After His ascension they were still the ruling religious authorities, yet He called out multitudes from within the ranks of those who had been sitting under their false teaching.
Last thought. You ask "what will happen if our pastors go out with the wrong training?". The same thing that has been happening for centuries. Hearers of their words will continue to be lost and led astray until the truth is presented and they are set free. I do not say this without a heavy heart, but it is a reality of this life and our mission is to reach the lost through standing for and presenting the truth of God's Word.
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT..... "What can one say?" You have made me envious in what you wrote and while reading it, I found myself saying: "I WISH I HAD SAID THAT."
I have been guilty of legalistic witnessing many times. In fact in reading all the posts that have been placed here, I started to think the following:
Instead of being legalistic to Sinners, why not rather be legalistic to the devil and tell him in no uncertain terms, WHERE HE WAS HEADING. "That's a good idea I thought. Open the doors, quote him scriptures and show him Hell. Good write it down and post it here." were my next thoughts.
I honestly believe that all of the above came from our enemies themselves...... Because immediately after that, I realised that I would be cutting right across God's Word. It would be exactly what the devil would want.
"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Jud 1:9
It is a fact that we seem to find that it becomes necessary to quote scripture to others, in order to, prove that we know what we are talking about. Nothing wrong with this. It is also a fact that today, we do this so often, that it becomes the norm. "I am standing for the truth." We say. Yes! Thats true but love seems to have gone out the window.
This happens to me often..... But when it's all over and I walk away, I feel drained, whereas I should be exhillirated, walking on cloud nine. Somehow I also know, what went wrong...... I had a need to prove that I was right and they were wrong. "God help me."
Ron
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Permalink Reply by Stew on
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Hello all,
I feel drawn to add to this dialog and in particular to the posts of my good friends Ron and LT. I agree with their perspectives. Here in California, we are seeing a lot of hatred toward those that supported the "gay marriage ban" (Proposition 8). The simple and plain truth is that so many people (young and old) are making what they are convinced are "equality statements" and "seeking equal rights for others." These poor lost soul need prayer. They do not have the Holy Spirit of God in their lives. They are easily influenced and the Word of God does not make sense to them. It just bounces off! To claim that marriage is between a man and woman as designed by God at the beginning of Man's time on Earth sounds to them as wacky as aliens from Mars attacking the earth (though some truly lost souls may find that more plausible). I have personally spoken to kids and adults on such topics and believe that we should offer our perspectives with love, but not compromise our conviction just to "stay in the good side of the popular crowd." That road is wide and we do well to stay on the narrow path.
Blessings,
-Stew
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Hi LT and Ron,
Thank you for your response...sometimes it feels like I'm going on a hamster wheel. My husband has said the following to me:
"I don't want you to talk to me about anything regarding Chrsitianity...just do not show me. I don't want to see it". If you are going to show anything to the kids...you must show it to me first." What?
This is the type of thing we are all dealing with! I have disregarded what he has said about the kids, and I am showing them anyway, I must obey God! I will be submissive to Craig to a point....but NOT when it comes to disobeying God. Basically Craig wants me to show things to him for the kids without really showing him. I think he must be experiencing being pulled in two different directions.
What you have said is is so true. Absolutely!
This leads me to the idea of how to witness. Some are afraid that if they speak they will be ridiculed. Some fear that they will appear to aggressive. One cannot simply hope that their good life style will be enough to draw people to faith. Two reasons this is not enough. 1) "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day" (Jn. 6:44). 2) "Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). These two verse again tie into the Luke 16 and John 16 teaching. It is the Father, the Holy Spirit and the Word. We are simply the presenters of the truth, not the truth itself. We are evidence of His grace, but not grantors of it.
and what Ron Said:
It is a fact that we seem to find that it becomes necessary to quote scripture to others, in order to, prove that we know what we are talking about. Nothing wrong with this. It is also a fact that today, we do this so often, that it becomes the norm. "I am standing for the truth." We say. Yes! Thats true but love seems to have gone out the window.
This happens to me often..... But when it's all over and I walk away, I feel drained, whereas I should be exhillirated, walking on cloud nine. Somehow I also know, what went wrong...... I had a need to prove that I was right and they were wrong. "God help me."
These are the real experiences that we take on as a challenge every day. So what do we do?
Here are some things.....Please add others....
1.) PRAY. Spend time alone with the Lord often. Pray scripture!
2.) Take up our Cross and follow Jesus.--ie: do our part in the world to reach the lost.
3.) Follow the leading of the Holy spirit when it comes to witnessing....BUT HOW? This is why we need to be so personally connected to God, He will show us. This is the area I struggle with the most...because I want to step out on my own...seemingly ahead of where God is working.
How do we attain that balance of Spirit and Truth? I think we rely on God for it.
4.) Do not judge.....
5.) Live 1 Corinthians 13 so that we are oozing it!!!
6.) Stop complaining--in everything! Take it to God.
7.) Repent often....also with prayer...tell God everything, HE already knows it anyway.
8.) Press on towards the goal
God Help me! ....I'm not just saying that....really GOD HELP ME!
Blessings, Carla
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Carla,
Good insights and helpful at the bottom of your comment and a good insight regarding your husband being pulled in two directions. There is no doubt that he is experieincing the conviction (convincing) of the Holy Spirit as many are praying for him. He sees the changed life in you. He will worry over what kind of change might be expected of him, and there are a lot of bad examples out there. We must remember, that in all of this, he is operating from an unregenerated mind. He has not experienced salvation and the presence of Jesus, yet.
Praying for you, him and your kids,
LT
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