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Genuine Faith against, the “losing your salvation” notion
I have never felt easy with the statement, “losing your salvation,” or “once saved always saved.” Both are statements are made by human pride. Many who say, “once saved always saved.” seem to act anyway they want. The words Genuine Faith are connected with genuine repentance. Genuine Faith is Led by The Spirit. I will share more with responses. So there is a question, how do any of you see these things? Yet, if you truly are saved, Fruit is produced.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Roy,
Will you help me understand the parable better? I've looked at it in Luke 8, also. Is it the word that dies or the faith (belief) that springs from it?
Then I have another question regarding the John 6 passage which you posted, but one thing at a time because this is important. I want to know the truth.
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 The ones along the path are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away. 14 And as for what fell among the thorns, they are those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by the cares and riches and pleasures of life, and their fruit does not mature. 15 As for that in the good soil, they are those who, hearing the word, hold it fast in an honest and good heart, and bear fruit with patience. Luke 8, ESV -
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Amanda,
The parable is meant for the believer. The Bible does teach very definitely that some or many will fall away. Jesus is explaining much of what we see today and what we have seen through times. Not everyone who calls Jesus "Lord" actually belongs to Him. Time is a test. Only those who are truly born again stand the test of time. Those that belong to Him have no where else to go.
Religion attracts all kinds of folks. These are explained in this parable. We should not be too surprised when one falls from the faith as Jesus told us beforehand that it would happen. But, we must be very careful not to assume that works or the lack of works is the test. Faith in Jesus changes us. We are born again to a new life. We may not make as great as progress as we would like but we strive to serve Him. He is the primary object of our thinking. Everything we do, we measure ourselves by His standards. Yet, we still belong to Him. Those who fall away do not belong to Him. Only those who endure to the end are His. We can make all kinds of claims but true faith endures.
Jesus gives us an example of four different kinds of those that hear the Word. Three out of the four did not really belong to Him. He didn't lose them - they never belonged to Him. His were the ones that received the Word and endured to produce fruit. These will never be lost.
I hope this helps. Others may have a better explanation.
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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
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Amanda
To your comment," Like when I'm called a loser -- the power to hurt me depends on who's saying it to me and how much I care about what he or she thinks." I think it also may depend on, how much you believe what they are saying is true or not. Even deep down, comments can strike a nerve and we may get hurt even in a small way. Yet, that can plant a seed and grow.
In the same way The Word of God is powerful, it's effect on us will have a deeper meaning when we put our faith and belief into The Word. Not that we add power, it is just that our faith in His Word allows His Power to flow without hindrance. Much like water will find level, or it will travel the path of least resistance. Our ability to receive The Word in faith, without question, is kind of like traveling the path of least resistance, so to speak.
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Yes, if I care about what the other person thinks, I'm giving their opinion credibility and begin believing it myself. Lies can take root within us as well, simply because we believe them.
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Amanda
I know you had asked Roy, one of the things I ran across in studying what I have shared is this article.
Perseverance of the Saints by Daniel B. Wallace
The perseverance of the saints is one of the most vital and precious truths of Scripture. Essentially, this doctrine means two things: (1) those who are genuinely saved will be saved forever, and (2) those who continue in the faith are genuinely saved.
False Security
All who will be saved forever are saved because of Christ’s work on the cross and God’s power to keep them saved. Known as eternal security, this truth is often stated as, “Once saved, always saved.” Unfortunately, many people think that simply making a confession at some point in their lives means they are saved even if their lives bear no Christian fruit. Some even think they can live like the Devil and yet be safe because of their earlier confession. But genuine faith requires genuine repentance (Mk 4:12; Ac 2:38; 20:21).
True Security
Genuine believers continue in the faith and good works throughout their lives. One basis for this conclusion is Jesus’ parable of the sower (Mt 13:3-23; Mk 4:3-20; Lk 8:4-15). Only the fourth soil type bears fruit even though the second and third types show life (belief) for a short while. The fourth soil symbolizes a genuine believer. The bearing of fruit (continuing in the faith and good works) is also the evidence of genuine belief named in John 15, where Jesus said only the branch that bears fruit is saved (vv. 5-6).
The Source of Security
Believers do not continue in the faith by their own strength. Rather, each member of the Trinity works to preserve them. In the first place our salvation completely depends on Jesus’ work, not on our merit (cp. Rm 3:21-26; 4:5-8; 8:1; Eph 2:8-9). Romans 8:30 is to the point: “And those He predestined, He also called; and those He called, He also justified; and those He justified, He also glorified.” So sure is our salvation that Paul speaks of our future glorification in the past tense!
Genuine Christians also continue in the faith because they are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a down payment (Eph 1:13-14) of the blessings promised by God, including eternal life. Paul had this in mind when he said: “And don’t grieve God’s Holy Spirit. You were sealed by Him for the day of redemption” (Eph 4:30). God the Spirit assures us of salvation at the beginning of our spiritual life and keeps us in the faith to the end of our earthly life (Jn 10:27; Rm 8:16; 1Jn 2:20,27; Jd 24).
John 10:27-29 teaches that true believers continue to hear the Lord’s voice and follow Him, meaning they continue in the faith and in good works. The Lord gives “them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.” But can’t a believer, of his own free will, choose to wander out of the Father’s and Jesus’ protective hands? No. A good shepherd does not allow his sheep to go astray. As our Good Shepherd, Jesus keeps us safe from the thief (Satan) and from ourselves
I trust it is ok to share this when you had asked Roy. It helped me in my studying and I hope you and others are helped as well.
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Chris,
I just now read your reply and it is very good. Continuance in the faith and a works-based theology are very different. One is good teaching while the other is a false teaching.
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Thank you, Chris, for responding. I really appreciate you stepping forward. It shows you care. You and I had some troubles in the beginning, but you've forgiven me. Thank you. I believe I'm always making problems for people:'(
I think I've probably posted discussions asking about the difference between persevering in the faith and how to know when continuing in the faith is not really doing works of faith or being in the faith at all but just making external changes, like behaving the way Jesus would behave, fasting and praying and reading Scriptures to make yourself grow spiritually, replacing bad behavior with good (I'll be nicer, more gentle, etc ...) keeping the commandments, etc ...
I think some people can be really saved but don't understand Jesus completely or at least the work He has done for them completely, and they are going in their own efforts, making external changes when what they need is transformation inside that only He can perform, and then it will show up externally and naturally. But maybe I'm wrong. -
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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I found this interesting and applicable to this discussion:
By Charles Spurgeon
January 26
Morning
"Your heavenly Father."
- Mat_6:26
God’s people are doubly his children, they are his offspring by creation, and they are his sons by adoption in Christ. Hence they are privileged to call him, "Our Father which art in heaven." Father! Oh, what precious word is that. Here is authority: "If I be a Father, where is mine honour?" If ye be sons, where is your obedience? Here is affection mingled with authority; an authority which does not provoke rebellion; an obedience demanded which is most cheerfully rendered-which would not be withheld even if it might. The obedience which God’s children yield to him must be loving obedience. Do not go about the service of God as slaves to their taskmaster’s toil, but run in the way of his commands because it is your Father’s way. Yield your bodies as instruments of righteousness, because righteousness is your Father’s will, and his will should be the will of his child. Father!-Here is a kingly attribute so sweetly veiled in love, that the King’s crown is forgotten in the King’s face, and his sceptre becomes, not a rod of iron, but a silver sceptre of mercy-the sceptre indeed seems to be forgotten in the tender hand of him who wields it. Father!-Here is honour and love. How great is a Father’s love to his children! That which friendship cannot do, and mere benevolence will not attempt, a father’s heart and hand must do for his sons. They are his offspring, he must bless them; they are his children, he must show himself strong in their defence. If an earthly father watches over his children with unceasing love and care, how much more does our heavenly Father? Abba, Father! He who can say this, hath uttered better music than cherubim or seraphim can reach. There is heaven in the depth of that word-Father! There is all I can ask; all my necessities can demand; all my wishes can desire. I have all in all to all eternity when I can say, "Father."
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By Charles Spurgeon
January 28
Morning
"Perfect in Christ Jesus."
- Col_1:28
Do you not feel in your own soul that perfection is not in you? Does not every day teach you that? Every tear which trickles from your eye, weeps "imperfection"; every harsh word which proceeds from your lip, mutters "imperfection." You have too frequently had a view of your own heart to dream for a moment of any perfection in yourself. But amidst this sad consciousness of imperfection, here is comfort for you-you are "perfect in Christ Jesus." In God’s sight, you are "complete in him;" even now you are "accepted in the Beloved." But there is a second perfection, yet to be realized, which is sure to all the seed. Is it not delightful to look forward to the time when every stain of sin shall be removed from the believer, and he shall be presented faultless before the throne, without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing? The Church of Christ then will be so pure, that not even the eye of Omniscience will see a spot or blemish in her; so holy and so glorious, that Hart did not go beyond the truth when he said-
"With my Saviour’s garments on,
Holy as the Holy One."
Then shall we know, and taste, and feel the happiness of this vast but short sentence, "Complete in Christ." Not till then shall we fully comprehend the heights and depths of the salvation of Jesus. Doth not thy heart leap for joy at the thought of it? Black as thou art, thou shalt be white one day; filthy as thou art, thou shalt be clean. Oh, it is a marvellous salvation this! Christ takes a worm and transforms it into an angel; Christ takes a black and deformed thing and makes it clean and matchless in his glory, peerless in his beauty, and fit to be the companion of seraphs. O my soul, stand and admire this blessed truth of perfection in Christ.
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