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Evil, Sin and Suffering: God's Sovereignty Implies What to YOU?
God is said to be sovereign in all things. Easton's Bible Dictionary offers this definition: "Of God, his absolute right to do all things according to his own good pleasure." God's sovereignty: What does that mean to you, in your own words?
For God to be God, he needs to be sovereign or supreme, in control, in and over all things at all times. If he's not sovereign, he's not God. However, this raises a host of questions.
- If God is omniscient (all-knowing), then he knows everything that will happen to us (past, present and future), including natural disasters, wars, famines, etc. He must have known in advance that Adam and Eve would sin and the consequences of their actions that would follow.
- If God is perfectly holy, just and righteous, why would he allow evil, sin and suffering in the world?
- If God is omnipotent (all-powerful), he's capable of stopping such things from happening. He could defeat Satan utterly, completely, and in an instant. Why doesn't he?
- Why, then, does a sovereign God cause, allow, or permit evil, sin and suffering in the world?
In your own words, God's sovereignty implies what to YOU?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Keith Ward is using human arguments to try and explain God and in so doing has put God in a box (IMO) by assuming God is limited in what He can and cannot do (going beyond the basic understanding that God cannot sin, etc) and limited in what He can and cannot know (believing God does not fully know every detail of the future). I hardily disagree with his assumptions and conclusions as given in the above statement. These assumptions are easy to make when one does not accept the Bible as an inerrant work of God, which he does not.
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Permalink Reply by Grazer #E2H on
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Don't much wrong with his logic. Aren't we putting God in a box by saying he can't change his mind?
I had my own analogy written down somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it out. It won't change your mind but it might help explain where I am at the moment and how I view this currently
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Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
1Sa_15:29 He who is the Glory of Israel does not lie or change his mind; for he is not a man, that he should change his mind."
Mal_3:6 "I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.
Isa 46:10-11 I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say: My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please. (11) From the east I summon a bird of prey; from a far-off land, a man to fulfill my purpose. What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Grazer,
Just between me and you (the one and only title - really?)
>>In order to for love to be fully expressed, it must be done so completely freely otherwise it is meaningless. God wants us to love him so he gave us free will. Free will means (among other things) we can choose what we do; this is not just restricted to loving God.
Free will means that your "Will," what is will would have to be studied, is free from exterior and interior influences. It's neutral at the time of making a decision. Our will has never been free. Our will is driven and slaved to an array of will drivers. Our will is definitely not free before we are born again, we are slaves of sin and All we do is sinful. Yes, we can do moral good, but no good before the Lord, who knows our heart. Our motives are not associated with the Glory of God when we are blind and lost.
Once we are born again, we are freed from sin and can bring God glory with our actions. We do not have free will either at this stage; we have the God given ability to make choices within the liberties granted to us by God. Free will is fiction. We belong to God, we are not free agents that can do whatever we want, we can only do what we want as long as God lets us and God has every right to stepped into our lives at any time whether we are born again or not, we are at both stages of our lives his creation.
We will one day be in a glorify body able to bring God glory with both body and Spirit, and we will not be able to sin, the sin component will be taken away, yet we will have liberties. God is sovereign, we are not, and we are in dominion of only what he gives us dominion of. God is God and not us. We need a savior and thank God we have one. Our Lord Jesus Christ. We can love God and be capture by His Love and really that is what makes our will able to do eternal good, the fact that we are captivated by his Love.
I don't have the time to deal with the knuckle head you are reading, it is good reading so you can know how to debunk his _____ haha...
Does God say anywhere in the bible that He will not force someone?
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Typically derisory response to a point you disagree with there David. What's the point of throwing names/insults around? Very Christ like!!
I chose God, I can choose to walk away if I want. I don't want to but that's not the point. If God forces someone, how is that love? That's like putting a gun to someones head and asking them if they love you. They'll say yes, they'll say anything you want but its meaningless
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Dude relax - I am kidding man... I thought if there was someone i could kid with, it was you, since when are you so sensitive?
Christ like? Let's see - I think my God has a sense of humor, after all He made me. :) hahaha
Ok you chose God and you can walk away you say, that is true, if you chose God and He did not choose you, but if He chose you, good luck with the walking away thingy.
Show me where it says that is not love, to save someone from themselves is not love, what in the world?
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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You said:
"Ok you chose God and you can walk away you say, that is true, if you chose God and He did not choose you, but if He chose you, good luck with the walking away thingy."
:)
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I guess I'm just fed up with the all the insults that have been thrown around at me I probably took it too personally I'm sorry.
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You just want others to let Grazer be who Grazer is and to love and accept you. "God never meant for the church to be a religious industry designed to churn out cookie-cutter Christians and paper-doll saints. On the contrary, His church is supposed to be a celebration of diversity (see 1 Cor 12)" -- The Grace Awakening, Charles R. Swindoll. In that sense, you are the one and only Grazer, and God isn't finished with you. We are all works in progress.
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Grazer - I kid around a bit, a bit too much for some, but from day one - I have nothing but love for you my brother.
I hope you get some rest. Love and blessings to you
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Grazer, I think what needs to be re- defined isn't God's omnipotence and omniscience but what "changing the mind" means. In Scripture I see where God goes ahead and does what God promises to do for people who repent and turn from their evil ways (who change their minds) when God has every right to judge and punish sin and yet chooses not to do so (mercy and grace).
That's not limiting God's power or changing His mind or saying God didn't see or know that He would make that call after everything in the situation transpired. It just means if people repent, they escape God's punishment of sin (God's wrath) but may still have to face human consequences for sinning (prison for murder, end of marital trust for adultery, etc...)
We humans don't correct God and change God's way of thinking in any way, shape, or form. What I see happening instead is, through communication with God (prayer, conversation with God -- most of the passages in Scripture where it looks like God's mind changes are narrative passages written by human authors, who, although inspired and writing what is God-breathed, are using human words to describe God's divine attributes) but what I'm able to see is that through communication with God, God is able to bring humans around to God's way of thinking and change their minds. I see this in all the passages of Scripture which mention God relenting or appear to be saying God's mind changed.
Here's a more in-depth article:
http://www.gotquestions.org/God-change-mind.html
As the article says:
"The Scriptures that are interpreted as God seeming to change His mind are human attempts to explain the actions of God. God was going to do something, but instead did something else. To us, that sounds like a change. But to God, who is omniscient and sovereign, it is not a change. God always knew what He was going to do. God does what He needs to do to cause humanity to fulfill His perfect plan. “…declaring the end from the beginning, and from the past things which were not done, saying, My purpose shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure … What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do” (Isaiah 46:10-11)."
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