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All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others

Everyone's thoughts on this one are appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, I am extremely conflicted and confused. I've asked a similar question before, but this time I'm going to word it a little different because I didn't quite get what I was looking for...

 

1. How much of your life do you believe is controlled by YOU? All of it? Some of it? None of it? Some people say God has a plan for us and certain things are supposed to happen to teach us something or open new doors for opportunities, etc, etc. 

2. Say if question #1 is true (God having a plan for us and controlling certain or all circumstances), doesn't that defy free will? If I want to be a clown for a living and rob people for a side job or feed starving children in Africa, that's my choice, right?

3. So, how much or to what extent do you believe that free will applies? If God gave us free will to choose Him or Satan, wouldn't He give us free will to decide what we want to do with our lives and who we want to involve? And in that case, how can the saying that "God allows certain things to happen to teach us something or open new doors" be true? If the extent of free will that God gives us allows us to choose our own life, how can He intervene?

4. Also, do you believe death is a natural process or a predestined process from God ("God won't pull your ticket till He is ready")? If our death is already planned out before we're even born, doesn't that also defy free will? Like, say I'm supposed to die in a plane. No matter what, I'm going to somehow be forced on that plane( limiting my free will) so I can die. Like, I have no other choice, but to board the plane. Some verse says that when there is a death, God grieves with us. And another one that says God does not cause death. So, does that mean that death is something that just happens? And in that possibility, wouldn't that show how much free will we have if we can choose our own death or make a decision that leads us to death?

5. What about a spouse or good friend? Are they placed in our lives from God or did we just hit the jackpot and get lucky? Someone on this site responded to a discussion regarding predestined relationships and said that he didn't think that praying for a spouse is really going to bring anyone. He said God's not going to send you someone with a stamp on their forehead that says "RIGHT HERE!."  You have to get up and do the work. He said that he believes that God doesn't care what you do with your life or who you involve, just as long as you are doing it in accordance with His word.

6. Let's use a metaphor: Say God does have a plan for every person and His plan is like a ballpark. Being that He gives us free will, does He allow us to choose our own seats or are they already assigned? Like, does God have a huge plan for us, but within His plan(the ballpark), our free will allows us to make the minor decisions ( the seats in the stadium at the ballpark)?  Can we make our own decisions at the game(life/His plan)? What seat we want (the career we choose), what concession stand we want to eat at(who we want to marry), what team we want to cheer for(if we decide to buy a 15 acre farm or live in NYC in a studio apartment), what fights we want to pick with the opposite team( if we want to have 1 or 7 children)? Or does God not even care what ballpark we go to, let alone the seats we sit in or the food we eat?

 

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Permalink Reply by Kayla on April 30, 2011 at 10:33pm
What if I'm supposed to be a nurse (if God does have a plan), but I decide to party a lot and I get horrible grades in college and end up flunking out. Or I get apprehensive and I'm too afraid to go through all the schooling....Will God somehow give me the strength and courage to go through school or will He manipulate whatever obstacles are holding me back so I can fulfill his plan? And if He doesn't, I obviously wouldn't be fulfilling His plan which in reality means that it never really was His plan (since God is omniscient and knew from the beginning that I would be too afraid or that I would party and flunk out.)
Permalink Reply by Kayla on May 1, 2011 at 2:29pm
Amanda- I've heard about God being the one who chooses us (I forgot though), but why aren't all people chosen? That's not fair. It doesn't make sense to me at all.
Permalink Reply by Kayla on May 2, 2011 at 7:30pm
Or perhaps "God choosing us not you or I choosing Him" means that when Jesus died on the cross, that was Him "choosing" us....Choosing everyone. Maybe the whole free will thing comes into play by giving us the option whether or not to accept God's offer...?
Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 3, 2011 at 12:43am

Kayla-

 

The whole world is condemned to hell. Everyone deserves hell and would be going there, if God did not give some grace (saving grace), for we have all sinned and not one human seeks after God to please him, apart from the Spirit of God working in them, so if God chooses to give some grace, which is up to Him to give and not something we deserve or can demand (the meaning of Grace is unmerited favor) would that make him unjust? Grace is completely given according to God's prerogative, if we think we deserve grace then we are no longer speaking of Grace, not the biblical grace. Mercy and grace are things God is not oblige to give. So if God gives some Saving grace and everyone else receives general grace (the rain falls for the just as well as for the unjust), would that makes God unjust? No! The bible deals with that question in Romans 9. This is not equal, but is not unfair. Now there are more factors to consider. Everyone who repents and believes will be saved. The questions you are asking deserve an intensive study to really get a grasp on the topic. Check out this discussion - you may find some answers there.

WHAT IS ARMINIANISM AND CALVINISM - http://www.allaboutgod.net/group/theologygroup/forum/topics/what-is...

 

I will try to answer your original questions when I have some time sis.

 

Would it be unjust if God steps in and saves some of the people who would otherwise fall under His wrath? Nope, of course not! Is He obligated to give everyone Saving Grace? Nope, of course not! He is God and He is good and perfect. So what do the others get, injustice? Nope, of course not, they get justice. No one gets injustice. Does God Repent and believe for us? Of course not, so how much is it God and how much is it Human Will? What is the degree? Salvation is of the Lord, but we are commanded to repent and believe and when we do, we really do, is not God repenting and believing for us.

 

A man dies and goes to heaven. St. Peter meets him at the pearly gates.

St. Peter says, "Here's how it works. You need 100 points to make it into heaven. You tell me all the good things you've done, and I give you a certain number of points for each item, depending on how good it was. When you reach 100 points, you get in."

"Okay" the man says, "I attended church every Sunday"
"That's good, says St. Peter, " that's worth two points"

"Two points?" he says. "Well, I gave 10% of all my earnings to the church"
"Well, let's see," answers Peter, "that's worth another 2 points. Did you do anything else?"

"Two points? Golly. How about this: I started a soup kitchen in my city and worked in a shelter for homeless veterans."
"Fantastic, that's certainly worth a point, " he says.

"hmmm...," the man says, "I was married to the same woman for 50 years and never cheated on her, even in my heart."
"That's wonderful," says St. Peter, "that's worth three points!"

"THREE POINTS!!" the man cries, "At this rate the only way I get into heaven is by the grace of God!"

"Come on in!"

 

Permalink Reply by Carla on May 1, 2011 at 9:58pm

Hi Kayla,

   Jesus died for the world.

14"As (S)Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must (T)the Son of Man (U)be lifted up;

 15so that whoever [a]believes will (V)in Him have eternal life.

 16"For God so (W)loved the world, that He (X)gave His (Y)only begotten Son, that whoever (Z)believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 17"For God (AA)did not send the Son into the world (AB)to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

 18"(AC)He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of (AD)the only begotten Son of God.

 19"This is the judgment, that (AE)the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for (AF)their deeds were evil.

 20"(AG)For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

 21"But he who (AH)practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

 

1. How much of your life do you believe is controlled by YOU?

Now that I am a born again child of God, I have the Holy Spirit to help me and guide me in my life.  The Holy Spirit will lead me to certain things, but I am not always obedient.  Before I knew the Lord, I did not have the Holy Spirit.  I was in bondage and under the control of my selfish sinful desires, or by satan's underlings.  I see now that I have much more freedom as a child of God, then I ever had before.  I still make wrong choices, but now I have been given the Holy Spirit... and God's wisdom and discernment so that I am able to choose to live according to God's will.  I have been given a new heart with new desires.  God removed my heart of stone and gave me a heart of flesh..  so now I want to live to please the Lord, before I did not.  Therefore, the issue is not control..  or who's in control.  The issue is more like..  what are my desires now compared to what they were before?  Who do I want to please now (now that I know the difference), God or satan?

 

3. So, how much or to what extent do you believe that free will applies?

Kayla, don't get stuck here.  God can and does intervene when you ask Him to.  I have experienced this first hand in my life.  God never causes bad things.  bad things happen because of sin.  God uses everything.  He is Sovereign--that means He is over all things.  However, He is also a perfect gentlemen and will not force Himself on anyone.  For the people who say 'no' to Him..He lets them go their own way.

Romans 8

28And we know that [c]God causes (BG)all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are (BH)called according to His purpose.

 29For those whom He (BI)foreknew, He also (BJ)predestined to become (BK)conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the (BL)firstborn among many brethren;

 30and these whom He (BM)predestined, He also (BN)called; and these whom He called, He also (BO)justified; and these whom He justified, He also (BP)glorified.

 

Romans 1

Unbelief and Its Consequences
 18For (AJ)the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who (AK)suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

 19because (AL)that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.

 20For (AM)since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, (AN)being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

 21For even though they knew God, they did not [c]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became (AO)futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

 22(AP)Professing to be wise, they became fools,

 23and (AQ)exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and [d]crawling creatures.

 24Therefore (AR)God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be (AS)dishonored among them.

 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a (AT)lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, (AU)who is blessed forever. Amen.

 26For this reason (AV)God gave them over to (AW)degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,

 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, (AX)men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, (AY)God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,

 29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are (AZ)gossips,

 30slanderers, (BA)haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, (BB)disobedient to parents,

 31without understanding, untrustworthy, (BC)unloving, unmerciful;

 32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of (BD)death, they not only do the same, but also (BE)give hearty approval to those who practice them.

 

4. Also, do you believe death is a natural process or a predestined process from God ("God won't pull your ticket till He is ready")?

I understand that death is predestined from God once we become a child of God.  Prior to that we are outside of His protection, and satan has free reign with us.

 

5. What about a spouse or good friend?

I believe that God does put people in our lives...  But not everyone.  I agree that we do have to get up and do the work.  Maintain healthy relationships according to God's Word, and how He outlines it for us.  If we step out of what God desires for us, and choose to live another way that is in opposition to what He says for us, then we are stepping outside of His provision and protection, and we will have to bear the consequences..  We reap what we sow.

 

6. Let's use a metaphor: Say God does have a plan for every person and His plan is like a ballpark. Being that He gives us free will, does He allow us to choose our own seats or are they already assigned? Like, does God have a huge plan for us, but within His plan(the ballpark), our free will allows us to make the minor decisions ( the seats in the stadium at the ballpark)?  Can we make our own decisions at the game(life/His plan)? What seat we want (the career we choose), what concession stand we want to eat at(who we want to marry), what team we want to cheer for(if we decide to buy a 15 acre farm or live in NYC in a studio apartment), what fights we want to pick with the opposite team( if we want to have 1 or 7 children)? Or does God not even care what ballpark we go to, let alone the seats we sit in or the food we eat?

God does have a plan for us..  Even though we tend to mess things up, God is really really big.  And He is able to bring about His purposes even though we get in the way.  We have to have it settled in our hearts that God is good.  His ways are always good, and He has the best for us.... His plan is that we will be conformed into the image of His dear son..  Messiah, Christ Jesus..  God is preparing us for His Kingdom and eternal life.  Let us not be short sighted.  God's plan for us goes much deeper and richer than anything we could ever imagine.  His ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts.  God does care about who we marry, how many children we have..  these choices may be yours, even if you have not asked for the Lord's help, you still have the ultimate choice decision for who you will marry, children, food you eat, etc..   We will each bear the consequences, good or bad of our choices.  God is not a control freak.  He wants you---all of you.  But-- He does not want you to control you.  He wants you because He Loves you.  God created you.  He knows you better than you know yourself.  Think on heavenly things...and not on earthly things.  You may or may not have these questions settled in your heart.  my hope is that you get to a point that even though you may have unanswered questions (and you will always have unanswered questions), that you surrender to the Lord and trust in him.  He will never leave you nor forsake you.  He remains faithful even when we do not. 

 

I hope i have somehow answered some of your questions.. 

~Carla

Permalink Reply by Kayla on May 2, 2011 at 7:38pm
I hope that I can get there too. Thank you. One of the major things that eat me alive is when something in my life doesn't go smoothly or something that doesn't make sense. I don't know whether to have peace and feel that it was "God's plan and supposed to happen that way" or if it was my own fault. I don't know whether to blame myself or have peace because it wasn't "meant to be" and God has something better....
Permalink Reply by Carla on May 2, 2011 at 7:54pm

Kayla..  There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus..  Romans 8:1

Don't get caught up in who did what..  or who allowed what to happen etc.. 

The past is the past..  continually move forward asking for God's guidance and direction..  He is faithful.

Trust that God is in control..

You don't have to have it all figured out.

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 3, 2011 at 12:11am

Carla -

 

Girl, you Rock! I praise God for you my friend and my sister.

Permalink Reply by Carla on May 3, 2011 at 11:23am

Thank you David..  you are a wonderful encourager. 

God Bless you.  Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by ScribeD on May 2, 2011 at 8:05pm

Kayla, every verse of scripture is there to teach you and lead you how you can follow and you can make wise decisions. If you aren't in control, then why would God put so much effort into teaching you?

 

I know that you have many questions, but really, the best place to get them answered is from God himself. Check out the Miracle Grow 2-3-2 project here on AAG and see if that doesn't help you get a better grip on this question.Faithfully follow that for 30 days and I guarantee you that you will hear God leading you and helping you understand.

 

What you are asking is the same as asking whether a cone is a circle or a triangle. The answer is yes to each and never no to either. Yes, God gives you free will and yes God is guiding you. Both are true. What you see depends on how you look at the situation, like the cone. You have to see that there are more dimensions to life than the "either this /or that" choices.

 

To know God's will you must seek and diligently pursue God. God will give you desires and then direct your paths. If you encounter something that is known to violate God's will, then you are to refuse that. But, do not think that God will lead you if you are sitting idle. God directs the paths of those who are moving actively to seek him as they pursue their life goals.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Kayla on May 2, 2011 at 8:25pm
Thank you :)
Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 3, 2011 at 12:10am

Scribe much love to you my brother. Great post beloved.

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