All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
DOES ONE GOD MAKE A TRINITY?
I have been analyzing the concept of the trinity for some time. I went back to the roots of christianity. It seems that this concept was created over time. It was molded over a few hundred years and as time went on it seemed that we were giving in to the world instead of presenting truth.
Jesus said my father is a spirit being and many will be called to worship him in spirit and truth. Jesus said the words i speak i do not spreak on my own authority but the father who dwells in me he does the works. Jesus said, and this is eternal life that they may know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.It says there is one God and father who is above all through all and in you all. It says one God and father who all the heavens and earth is named.But where does it say trinity. The phrase isnt in the bible anywhere. It was a creation of man with the backing of lucifer. It was an attempt and succesfully presented to inject polytheism into christianity just as it has been injected into other religion.
God is as the air within a balloon . The balloon is empty and has no shape or form. Once air is blown into the balloon it has substance and form. It has mass it takes up considerable space compared to its uninflated form.It is now filled with air. You cannot see air nor touch it though we know it exists. Now if we pop the balloon or let the air out the balloon goes back to its origional shape.God an invisible spirit being inhabits that which is not invisible manefesting himself through that which is able to be seen.
God has shown me that he is the light and jesus is the lamp that the light is within. We if uninitiated believe the lamp is in fact the light but as we grow older we realize that the electricity is that which gives light. It the lamp is just the vessel that holds the electricity which becomes light. God has shown me that water can in fact take three forms. But it is still primarily called water. God has presented himself in three ways, the father in creation the son in redemption and the spirit in his church. These are all part of one God a spirit being. Each different charecteristics of one being,one mind, one consciousness. Just as a man can be a father a son and a brother. Each has different roles and different charecteistics but it doesnt make them three different persons with three different names.
God is as a cloud. The cloud is made up of millions of tiny droplets of water. It can break into smaller clouds or come together and make one large cloud again.
Lucifer remember is a master of subltly. He needs to put idolatry within all religions because this is a major weapon against us obeying God.
The concept presented here doesnt go against the concept of father son and holy spirit but allows a deeper understanding of God as his true person and only person a spirit being.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Praise2RevealurFaith on
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See, maybe the confusion comes in for most because you give them so much to go by lets just keep it simple
"professing themelve to be wise they became fools"
You have said everything you needed to say right here. "Jesus Christ as the man the fleshly being was in fact created or did you forget? He was in fact created in an immaculate way with Mary being the mother and our God in his true form a spirit being being his father.He existed as the word a part of God the part he used to create the universe the word eternally.This word which was in fact God part of God and one with God and was God.His physical body was irrefutably created ,but his spirit was always the father and thus God."
If any of you lack knowldge, ask with true intent and it should be given unto you. -
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Permalink Reply by Douglas A Pavone on
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Praise,
See i did it again below i didnt listen to you before i wrote but i had to adress a few things that have been bothering me.But im trying, pray that God will give me the ability to speak less and with more blessed strength.
May God richly bless you -
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Permalink Reply by harrison keith willey on
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Doug .what made it a lot easier for me to understand the trinity is yes there is one god who is three but yet still one ,and that is God is perfect,Christ is perfect,and the Holy Spirit is perfect. When I realize that there isn't any other perfect persons. then surly since God is perfect that they would have to be perfect too
Amen -
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My question is why do i need to understand that which all others seem to embrace without question. I know that the road is narrow and few there be that find it.I know that to make yourself a friend of the world you make yourself a enemy of God.I know that the world is controlled by Lucifer and he is the god of this place that he rules all kingdoms both religious and secular.
I know that the more i research the bible the more i find changes from the origional text.These translational changes have favored the trinitarian doctine to the point of changing adding or removing texts. I do consider the word of God to be valid but with the exceptions of a few areas that relate to the name of God and the change from his name YHWH pronounced YAHWEY to adonai and the favorite elohim, and the scriptures that seemingly validate the trinity.Which include Matthew 28 19 and 1 John 5 7 both have been added and did not exist in the origional codexes .God said my people are as the sands of the sea but only a remnant will be saved.Jesus said you will know them by how they love.
I love those i discuss theology thoughh some can be in need of a little softening when their beliefs come into question.I know that my theology goes against that which is mainstream but what is mainstream. I do not believe mainstream will get you to heaven.God is choosing us, calling many but choosing few. I dont want to be one who he said you just accepted what everyone else said without finding out if it is true.The apostle Paul said work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
If you seek to learn the language of hebrew it will give you more insight into the foundational thinking that formed our religion. If you look at things through the eyes of a Jew you will understand the things that my brother Roy cannot possibly comprehend.I do not seek to insult but to make clear. If you look at things with the eyes of a gentile you only get half the understanding.
This is why the concepts i have been presenting have been so diffecult to grasp.Our God is spirit and a spirit is like a cloud or as a flame. How can he be everywhere at once is he a man so large that he covers the entire univese.The living spirit of God is like the electricity that makes a lightbult light,the lightbulb is just the vessel for the light when the switch is turned off so goes the light when Gods spirit leaves us we die.This is not mysticysm but an attempt to use human logic to understand heavenly things which is the essence of theology.
These analogies are seemingly hard to comprehend.If you look at things with the eyes of a Jew you will comprehend more than you would imagine. To go back to the roots of our religion to the Hebrew and to the greek. Even to the ancient Hebrew and the unadulterated origional ancient greek . You will see the one God in all of this and you will remember the scriptures that have never been contested. We have one God who is above all through all and in you all. We have one God and one lord Jesus Christ.This is eternal life to know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.Even the demons know there is one God and they fear.There are hundreds of scriptures that say there is one God but a few molded scriptures that seek to justify a trinity.Two of which are invented.
Judaism was the first religion of its time to be monotheistic,which is defined as one God one spirit one person.This is how Jews see things can you make this work in your mind. Can you throw out anything you have learned about the devised trinity and make this work in your mind. If you look through the eyes of a Jew you can.
To have our father as the only God seems so clear to me and i cannot see how a student who goes at it looking through the eyes that peter the apostle looked through that he cannot see that our father is the savior.His power is all that Jesus has and had or wil have and Jesus himself would attest to this fact.Jesus was a man devine in creation made a little lower than the angels but a man who can be killed.Our father the savior made our lord the savior and this is what we forget. Or shall i say most of the Christian world forgets.Jesus said all this has been given to me.
The heavenly origins of Christ Jesus i have seen more clearly than i have in a long time. But try to understand that i only call the father God. Just as a son is like his father he is never exactly the same.The only way that he could be the same is if he was in fact his father and his father was him. But Jesus said this didnt he.
My sister a few pages back found references for the spirit of God throughout the bible from Genesis to Revelations but not as a person. Jesus said i will pray the father and he will send you the conforter in John 14:16 and he said in one line after in John 14 18 i will not leave you confortless, I will come to you.I will come to you,not he will come to you.If this is hard to understand Jesus said later in John 16 12 I have yet many things to say unto you but you cannot bear them now(or understand them now).
Jesus said I will go to my father because my father is greater than I. He said the father who dwelleth in me he does the works.How did the father dwell in him unless he was a spirit a holy spirit as our God is holy and is a spirit being.Jesus said the spirit gives life the flesh counts for nothing,the words i have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.Jesus the word taken flesh spoke life and healing but that life was spirit as he was spirit.Who he truly was beneath the flesh that he wore so we could have a being that we could relate to.
We as human beings have a diffecult time understanding God unless he looks like us i think this is a foundational block for most people.Our loving father and God knew this so he created a man holy and blessed with himself as the father.His spirit within the body of Jesus and Jesus being the soul seperate from the father but their spirit being one.Complete unity unlike anything we can understand but the fathers spirit being God dwelling within Jesus but not being Jesus.This is a mystery this is what is hard to understand.Our God having many parts and all controlled by his spirit.Im sitting here and i am typing do i really feel that i know what my fingers are doing i know they are moving but am i really comprehending them as they speed over the keys. My feet resting on the floor they are attached to me but am i really moving them to a more comfortable position or are they moving themself.My brain is telling them to move as it says our head is Christ and his head is God.Nowhere does it say that our God and father has a god or he has any other head than his own.1 Corinthians 11 3 but i would have you know that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is the man,and the head of Christ is God.
John 14 28Jesus said i go to my father because he is greater than I.I worship God in Jesus name this is what my savior and my Lord taught me.He lives in me and empowered by the father saved me from my sinsJohn 6 44 no man comes to me unless he is drawn to me by my father.
I love him and i serve him and i hope to one day be drawn to him in the sky. I have lately been talking to him for the first time in years and he has shown himself to me.The apostle Paul talked to him but he never called him God though he appeared in the sky in a light so bright he was blind for three days.
the apostle Paul reserved this name for our father alone as it says in each and every apistle God our father and our Lord Jesus Christ, curiously no mention of the holy spirit.
If you understand that the only name for God is the tetragramaton YHWH then you would know that there is only one God.That the word elohim and adonai are words that were used instead of this name for God out of fear by the Jews of breaking the third commandment.That this became a practice a precept or tradiotion and as Jesus said they will toss away the commandments of God for the precepts practices and tradition of man.Jesus said I have revealed your name to the men that you gave me from the world they were yours and you gave them to me and they have kept your word.His fathers name was not elohim this is a word translated out of fear.This is clarified in the prefaces of almost every translation of the bible from the Hebrew to english.How they out of tradition referred to our God by these names even though they admit his name is YHWH pronounced YAHWEY.
Remember Jesus was a Jew, to truly know our religion we must seek understanding by going to the root.Understand the mind of those who began it the Hebrews. By learning their language before it was corrupted by the babylonians and the greeks and the world as it has to our modern times.Only in this was can we understand what and who God is . I am still studdying and when i am done i hope i will meet my Lord in heaven and he will say well done good and faithfull servant.
I thank you all you are pushing me to study and to question and each and every time our loving God reveals more and more.
May God richly bless you -
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Kneeling,
Douglas could not make himself more clear. He does not believe Jesus is God. He believes Jesus was a created being. He does not believe Jesus is eternal God. One thing is for certain: either Jesus is a created being or He is God. Is Jesus God? That is the position of Holy Scripture which is God's representation to us today. He believes Scripture has been modified over the years to present Jesus to us as God. That is my interpretation of his position.
Roy -
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Roy,
Does the word God associated with Jesus mean so much to you. You believe the father was God dont you? You fight to justify Jesus as being god why?.I agree that his spirit was God not him as a person being God.Why must you fight for this?.All things are given to him he will judge the living and the dead his name is above every name.In terms that i believe you comprehend he is a god in the greek definition of god.Your understanding is not unique it has been this way within every polytheistic religion since the beginning of time.To have man be God.To worship man as God, and not worship God as God.
Again Jesus the fleshly being was created,but his spirit was God the father and was not created but always was as the father always was and is.
Yes scripture has been modified in two specifically telling ways as again in Matthwe 28 19 and 1 John 5 7. These scriptures though dont contextually fit have been inserted and these are the ones that most powerfully attempt to bring out the tri position.
Your interpretation of scripture is that this is the representation of Gods scripture today.This is your interpretation you cannot state that this is Gods as you are not God and neither am I.
I believe that the etenal God is within Jesus not that he is the eternal God.To the naked eye Jesus is God but to the father he is our Lord and savior the lamb of God. -
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Douglas,
Are you searching or here to convince us that Jesus was not truly God? I don't think there are any following this forum. This website is very clear on its belief in Jesus. I am curious why you are here. Are you seeking or are you convinced? Yes, I do believe Jesus is God our Savior. I am going to share that as I have started below. I pray that you will also come to know Him as the Holy One of Israel.
Roy -
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This is an example of a statement that I believe is extremely dangerous and against Scripture. I do not believe Douglas has proper support for making this statement. The eternal Word of God is not a created being. This is an example of his position on Jesus:
We as human beings have a diffecult time understanding God unless he looks like us i think this is a foundational block for most people.Our loving father and God knew this so he created a man holy and blessed with himself as the father.
This statement says it all as far as I am concerned. This is not a Christian statement. This is an anti-Christ statement. Does the Scripture present Jesus as our Savior God? Can there be any question on that issue? Is anyone out there following this thread? Will someone please put up some Scripture that shows Jesus as God. I will get it started:
Jn 1:1-4 NIV
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.
There are many, many, many verses that present the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ to us. What are your favorites? -
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kneeling,
I dont view him as a man just like us at one time he was closer to us than he is now but now he is in his glorified body as we will have as well through his work and sacrafice.Through this he was given a name above every name and all knees will bow and every tongue will confess him as Lord to the glory of the father.He was again created in his fleshly form with a blessed pure woman and God our father as his father.He was created immaculately that sure puts him head and sholders above me and every person who was ever born.His fleshly body has in fact been created or begotten .
HIs physical body was created in such a way that the father could fully be within him the might and force of his full Godhead.It says the fullness of the Godhead rested upon him bodily.The term Godhead never related to the trinity but to the full power of God the father.This might i believe could exist in him and him alone which again sets him above us.Though he did say that all things he did we can do and do greater because he goes to the father.
In relation to the book of John if God is one and there is no trinity then how does the word exist.It exists as part of our eternal spirit God.A spirit obviously is unlike us and behaves in a way that we cannot understand just as energy in light can be seperated into small particles.God has many parts within his spirit being and the one that calls things to be is the word.This is not a creation of our father but is a part of him and always was.It was a part that he never used until he created all that is and from that time it was always active.Because if there was a creation at one time there was nothing.
I rely on the king James bible though i have about 4 other translations. But i have heard that this isnt based on the oldest codex.I would like to get the Hebrew bible because this uses the name of God ,YAHWEY,in all areas and there is no manned down substitutions.But i know that God can communicate to us through any version we have because he lives within us and knows us better than we know ourselves. -
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Who Is Jesus? Was He created in the womb of Mary or was He existent before this, the Holy One of Israel, Jehovah God?
Isa 42:8 "I am the Lord; that is my name!
I will not give my glory to another
or my praise to idols. NIV
Who is this? One thing is for sure, this Person will not share His glory with another. One thing we do know is that He is the everlasting God.
Isa 40:28 Do you not know?
Have you not heard?
The Lord is the everlasting God,
the Creator of the ends of the earth. NIV
Step forward masterful God and declare Yourself:
Isa 41:4 Who has done this and carried it through,
calling forth the generations from the beginning?
I, the Lord — with the first of them
and with the last — I am he." NIV
Isa 41:9-10 I have chosen you and have not rejected you.
10 So do not fear, for I am with you;
do not be dismayed, for I am your God.
I will strengthen you and help you;
I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
Isa 41:13 For I am the Lord, your God,
who takes hold of your right hand
and says to you, Do not fear;
I will help you.
14 Do not be afraid, O worm Jacob,
O little Israel,
for I myself will help you," declares the Lord,
your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
22 "Bring in [ your idols] to tell us
what is going to happen.
Tell us what the former things were,
so that we may consider them
and know their final outcome.
Or declare to us the things to come,
23 tell us what the future holds,
so we may know that you are gods.
Isa 43:2-3
2 When you pass through the waters,
I will be with you;
and when you pass through the rivers,
they will not sweep over you.
When you walk through the fire,
you will not be burned;
the flames will not set you ablaze.
3 For I am the Lord, your God,
the Holy One of Israel, your Savior;
Declare Yourself, Mighty God. Who are You?
Isa 43:11-13
11 I, even I, am the Lord,
and apart from me there is no savior.
12 I have revealed and saved and proclaimed —
I, and not some foreign god among you.
You are my witnesses," declares the Lord, "that I am God.
13 Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
NIV
Apart from me, there is no savior -
Jn 6:68-69 Simon Peter answered him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. 69 We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God."
Who is this Holy One of God? Is He a created being or was He there with Israel from the beginning?
Ex 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
Who does this sound like?
Jn 13:19-20 "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am He. 20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."
Isa 43:13 Yes, and from ancient days I am he.
Who can know the future?
Isa 42:9 See, the former things have taken place,
and new things I declare;
before they spring into being
I announce them to you."
Here is just one example where Jesus is exhibiting His deity. Before something happens He announces it so they may know, "I am He."
He, the Holy One of Israel became a servant to procure for us salvation. He is our Savior. There is no other.
Of course, a book can be written with examples like the one I have just given where the Old Testament God is revealed to us as Jesus, our Savior.
Jesus is eternal God. He became a servant for us that we might be saved from our sins.
He came to get those who were His own and not only those of Israel but those of the Gentile nations as well:
Isa 43:6-7
6 I will say to the north, 'Give them up!'
and to the south, 'Do not hold them back.'
Bring my sons from afar
and my daughters from the ends of the earth —
7 everyone who is called by my name,
whom I created for my glory,
whom I formed and made."
Isa 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the Lord,
"and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Those who belong to Him know Who He is. They recognize Him as the Holy One of Israel. His sheep know His voice and they follow Him. They know His voice because they have heard it read in the synagogues. They have heard it passed down to them. They hear it in their spirits. They know Who the I Am is. They are chosen and therefore they know Him.
What must I do to be saved from my sins? Fall down and declare He is the Holy One of Israel. There is no other way. Declare He is Lord. He is the Lord of the Old Testament and the New Testament. He is Yahweh. He will not share His glory with another.
He announces things that will happen in the future that we may know Him.
The things He has proclaimed has already happened (such as the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70) or will happen. His prophecy of the church should be enough. Yet, it is only a portion of that which shows His deity. His announcement that "I am He" shows us Who He is.
I don't think there are many on this forum. Douglas, I pray that some will join us and share their faith of who Jesus is with you. At this point, I consider you an unbeliever. You are searching and you are here on this website which clearly announces its belief that Jesus is the eternal God. Are you here to convince us that Jesus is not God or are you here searching?
Roy -
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Roy,
Firstly Gods name is not Jahovah in Hebrew there is no j.Secondly this name came about in the same corrupt way as the name of God being replaced with elohim and adonai.Since hebrew alphabet has no vowels vowel signs needed to be added.The name jahovah came about from using the tetragramatron YHWH and inserting the wrong vowel signs.Vowel signs that went with the words adonai and elohim.
To illustrate many Hebrew names contain the beginning of Gods name as Isayah,Jerimayah,Obidayah,Zachariyah.
Second you are again using substituted names for God and believing that the name Lord was referring to Jesus and not to our eternal father.
Your thought patern isnt odd though because we need to look at it as a Jew of the time not a gentile of today.
Remember that the bible has been translated to mesh with the minds of those who wrote it. If you look at our modern translations they were written by trinitarian minds and churches that favored that viewpoint.Also the bible is a book and to make money it must sell.My viewpoint isnt shared by the majority of Christians though im believing that God is making a move in that direction.
Im reading your posts and your jumping all over the place.You see the word Lord in the old testament and you believe this is referring to Jesus when clearly it is about our heavenly father.You read the holy one of God and you relate this to Exodus 3 14 when the name you are referring to is YHWH the personal name of God.If you want to make a point you need to come up with scripture that helps you not helps the opposing view.
In the Isayah references again just because the name Lord is used does not mean it is referring to Jesus as the Lord it is referring to our almighty father.It says I will not give my glory to another.In Galatians 1 4,5 grace and peace to you from God the father and our Lord Jesus Christ,who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age,according to the will or our God and father.,to whom be the glory for ever and ever.
Isayah 4 28 Here our God is being referred to by a few names for him but it doenst mean this is Jesus as the Lord again just because we refer to him as the Lord.
Isiah 41 4 It is vague that this is Jesus as it says i will call forth with the first and with the last.it sounds like i am the first and the last but it isnt.
Isayah 41 13 Again everytime it says lord thy God it does not refer to Jesus but is referring to our heavenly father.
Isayah 41 14 The redeemer is our father as the holy one of Israel his spirit this is again not referring to Jesus as God. This scripture is not clearly stating its reference is to Jesus.
Isiyah 41 22 Again you ascribed the holy one of Israel as Jesus you continue to move in the direction of saying that Jesus not the father knows the future.Again this is not clearly stating that this is about Jesus.
41 11-13 The ancient of days has always been referred to as the father and not our Lord.
Im not sure if i missed a few of your scriptures but if you like you can read the scriptures below and they will clearly tell you who is our father God and who is the Lord.
In 2 corrinthians it clearly defines who Jesus the Lord is and who God or YHWY is.
In 2 Corrinthians 1 21 it says But it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has commisioned us.
2 corinthians 2 14 But thanks to God, who in Christ leads us in triumph, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere.15 For we are the aroma of Christ to God.....
2 corinthians 4 4, In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers ,to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ,who is the likeness of God
2 Corrinthians 4 6For it is God who said let light shine out of darkness ,who has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
Again God in Christ not Christ as God
Powerfull scripture and mystery of our spirit being God
2 Corinthians 5 17 Therefore if any one is in Christ he is a new creation,the old has passed away behold the new has come.18 All this is from God who through Christ reconciled us to himself, and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,that is God was in Christ,reconciling the world to himself.
It continues:
Not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.So we are embassadors for Christ,God making his appeal through us.We beseech you on behalf of Christ,be reconciled to God.For our sake he made him sin who knew no sin so that in him we might become the rightousness of God.
2 Corrinthians 9 13 Under the test of this service you will glorify God by your obedience in acknoledging the gospel of Christ.
Epesians 4 6 There is one God who is above all through all and in you all.
Roy I read every one of your posts and the scriptural referrences are not compelling.You have been taught this and you believe.I hope you read what i have to say not just to understand it so you can come up with a response.Because since i have been reading yours i have come closer to our Lord not our father God our Lord.I have experienced a closeness and a deeper understanding.
But in relation to your approach our Lord would call you a pharacy.Didnt jesus teach his decyples that if the person is not with you and is casting out demons in his name and doing miracles in his name that he cannot be againt him. He said who isnt against us is for us.
You like to make broad sweeping statements as sad and oh i dont consider you a believer.Are you the apostle Paul, Peter,our Lord or God himself because it seems if i dont believe as you believe im not a believer.Hell will be full of pharacys who believed their way was the only way and all others were pagans.I read the bible and i read so i can understandand im not afraid to question everything that i have ever been taught and admit that i am wrong. I dont know if i can say the same for you.
Im blessed that we are not in the dark ages because youd probably have me burned.
Every scripture you gave me did not point to Jesus but to the father only you interpreted it as pointing to Jesus because no one ever told you anything different.The word savior related to our heavenly father because he prepared the salvation plan and he was in our Lord as God. As i showed above. -
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