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Depart from Me for I never knew you
When someone struggles with the sins of the flesh, does it mean that on the day of judgement, Jesus will say to them, "Depart from me, for I never knew you?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Forgiven,
You said:
I want to thank you Roy, for bringing this out...for making it so clear to me the dire strongholds of procrastination and denial. It is truely a curmudgeon who say's, "I refuse to change".......But as for me.....I say, "I WILL change...in every way of which I am able to overcome my sin and approach the throne of the Living God and my Lord and Saviour in Holiness." Does that make me 'holier than thou'? No...it is obeying my Lord's commandment to ''bring hope to the hopeless" .........and yes, I have a very long way to go. But my Saviour has 'Assured me'....It IS possible. YES I CAN!
Can I respond to the last three words you said without being offensive? If you prefer not, I won't but I am sure some others might but maybe not. If they care, however, they will.
God bless you. Again, please forgive any offense.
Roy -
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Forgiven,
I wrote that story only to let you know I wasn't sitting around thinking I didn't need to serve Him. I'm not sure what I said that made you think that. I am convinced that I do not have an ounce more righteousness than you. It doesn't matter when we have come from, we all need Him the same. We all are desperately in need of what He has done for us. My only reason for writing what I did was simply because you called my life into question. I do not consider myself any better than anyone. We are all equal in His sight. He loves us all the same. If I began to think that somehow what I have done or what I will do in the future will have anything to do with attaining any righteousness, in my eyes that would be self-righteousness and that is the very issue Christ was dealing with when He rebuked the Pharisees for depending on their works for salvation.
I accept your apology. God bless you.
Roy -
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Dear Forgiven,
I have deleted my reply in which I told about my life. I seldom ever delete a response but I didn't want anyone to think I felt any pride or righteousness in anything I have done. The only thing that I think about are those things which remain to be done.
However, I am very grateful to God for my family. God told me that if I would be responsible for their training He would do the rest. I did take that responsibility and He greatly blessed my wife and I for it. I am very grateful to God for His Word.
Praise Him for all things.
Roy -
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LT,
In your theology, can a person with a habitual sin make it into heaven? Is it your theology that a person can have habitual sin but at least have to be trying to overcome that sin to make it into heaven?
Yes, Jesus was talking to those who felt they were righteous in themselves. I want to get as far away from that as I can possibly get. I will answer about my life in a paragraph below. I do not believe, though, that I am helping Him in the sanctifying process. He is doing that in me by His will for His glory.
Roy
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Roy,
I read the Bible as stating that a person upon salvation is forgiven, changed, sealed and becomes a child of God. This is irrevocable. Thus the issue of continuing in habitual sin does not play into whether a person makes it to heaven or not once they have come to repentance, are justified in Christ and regenerated through the work of the Holy Spirit.. Salvation is based on grace through faith. I believe we are saved by grace and that salvation is retained by grace. Many will teach grace to receive salvation and then revert to a works based to maintain it. That is inconsistent with God and His Word. I could not gain it by works nor would I keep it if it required keeping the law perfectly.
Thus the issue is not about retention of salvation, which cannot be lost, but whether we seek to grow in Christ and live to please God. The person who experiences habitual sin in their life will either experience one of two things. He will either take a prodigal son trip were the Father lets him wander until the world does its work and he returns or he will experience divine discipline (Heb. 12), for there are consequences for sin. We can cause problems in this life and lose rewards in the next by living in sin. When a believer repents of a sin they are not seeking salvation all over again, but rather to be cleansed of the stain and restored to usability. Sin hinders the work of God in a believer.
We have a responsibility to live in a manner that is pleasing to God and sets a proper example for the world and other believers. I caution here, this means be real. We have struggles, but our desire is to overcome them, not surrender to them. This is not a holier than thou mentality, but simply seeking to live the Christ-like life. Though we will not reach perfection while in the flesh our goal is perfection none-the-less (Mat. 5:48). Spiritually that perfection is provided through salvation, but we spend a life time warring against the flesh and seeking to overcome the flesh.
No one helps God in the sanctifying process. We simply must surrender and then walk as He leads. This is not doing it yourself, but letting go and letting God. To do less is living for self and thus living in some form or degree of rebellion. God wants all of us, not just part.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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LT,
We are very close in our theology. I have worked very hard on living a godly life. However, I guess over the years have become more Calvinistic than most. I am enjoying a freedom I had never had before this understanding. Actually, though, I am not sinning more, I am sinning less but still very far from Christ's standard.
I'm not sure what I said that got everyone so upset. I ask forgiveness for upsetting the brothers but find myself doing that from time to time. I will continue to give Christ 100% of the glory for my salvation as long as I am allowed to. I will never make people think that they must live up to a certain standard to be acceptable to God.
My life was brought into question and so I responded. I will probably remove that as I am only responding because some might think I am trying to hide some certain sin as was mentioned by my brother in Christ, Forgiven.
I agree that sin is something that will never result in a person losing their salvation. I know I am still very subject to sin and may still fall to one of the big ones. I am so grateful that He is my Savior and has done for me everything necessary for my salvation leaving me to enjoy Him and Him to enjoy me.
I might be wrong but I am pretty sure that nothing I have said will cause some to go out and live a life of sin. However, I do believe if I can help some to get their attention off of their failures and upon His victories, I will help them overcome those sins that are so easily besetting them.
How do I measure up to your standards? - probably acceptable. How do I measure up to Him? - very poorly. I take no pride in myself.
God has mightily blessed me. I am not working for rewards, I just want to be there with Him. I want to be one standing there watching Him take the scroll. I want to see Him come back to earth. I want to see Him taking it back over. I will be there with Him when He finally conquers evil on this earth. I live for that day.
God forbid that I would ever lead one of His beloved children astray. God help me to teach them how much He loves them and how little concern He has to where they are in their walk. They belong to Him. He is going to take care of His sheep. I have total confidence in the work of His grace. There is not one believer in Him that will ever miss heaven. I covenanted with Him and did not lose one of mine. They are now His and His alone. I know He will never lose one of His.
God bless you and please forgive me for the offenses.
Roy -
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Permalink Reply by forgiven on
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Thank You for that story Roy. I appologize for assuming. My own life has been quite the opposite of your story. I certainly have not 'earned' my salvation by my 'righteousness'....I did not 'have' any righteousness.. Salvation is a very dear gift that was given to me though I did not deserve it. Jesus 'Saved me' from what I would call the 'living dead'.....for no other reason that I can figure , except only that He loved me.....before I loved Him. He cared enough to pull me out of my whirlpool of destruction just before I was going under. I am still suffering some consequences from that old life, that I have not been able to gain freedom from, but I have faith and hope. There is an old saying, "This too shall pass". I am so amazed by the miracles He has done in my life, and I still have a long way to go......putting my life back together, but I am putting my life back together with the Lord now, not by myself. This time I am building on the rock. As I said earlier, "I can change". I will pray about these things...and ask God if I have been 'trusting Him' enough, and look for new ways...to 'allow Him' to do these things. Thank you for your advice and counsel, please forgive my stubborness, I tend to be very resistant to accept things that I have not 'seen' for myself.
Also....as I said, 'my ' experience in life has been way different than yours...there are many things in 'my' life...that truely needed to change...even discarded. This is of course with the Lord's help. I needed to do a complete 'turn-around'......'repentance'....and there are many, many like me that are in such a condition. I see what you are saying..that it is 'Jesus' in us....but many of us also need to take a very active part in 'ripping out' the old garbage and getting rid of it. There are many of us who need to make a very 'concious effort', and 'accelerated effort' in working 'with' the Lord to do this work. -
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Roy,
I chose to respond to select portions of your comments.
I am sinning less but still very far from Christ's standard.
Though perfection in this life is unattainable in the flesh, we still aspire to it. We seek to live for Christ by surrendering to Him daily. We do “press on” as Paul has stated.
I'm not sure what I said that got everyone so upset.
My opinion is that things got carried away partly because I think you misread some of the comments others made and assumed that they meant some things that I do not believe they meant regarding working for or keeping salvation.
I will never make people think that they must live up to a certain standard to be acceptable to God.
None of us should teach that. We are only acceptable through the blood of Christ and His work on our behalf. At the same time, though, we have the opportunity to please God in this life as a child brings pleasure to his earthly dad.
I agree that sin is something that will never result in a person losing their salvation. I know I am still very subject to sin and may still fall to one of the big ones.
The knowledge of our vulnerability is a good thing. It puts us on guard. Satan knows our weaknesses and so should we.
I am so grateful that He is my Savior and has done for me everything necessary for my salvation leaving me to enjoy Him and Him to enjoy me.
Amen, and part of that joy is our desire to please God (bring joy to God’s heart) by living for Him. It is more of an attitude of heart than a result in the flesh. Is the heart truly bent on pleasing God, loving Him and living for Him?
How do I measure up to your standards? - probably acceptable. How do I measure up to Him? - very poorly. I take no pride in myself.
My standard is of no consequence. Only God matters. As brothers in Christ we are to encourage, help and at time rebuke one another based on God’s Word. This is always to be done in love for the good of the individual.
God has mightily blessed me. I am not working for rewards, I just want to be there with Him.
If we live for God the rewards will take care of themselves. If we live for the reward we are missing the mark. I teach in my ministry that “Heaven is not my goal, God is my goal! If we shoot for heaven we are shooting too low.”
God forbid that I would ever lead one of His beloved children astray. God help me to teach them how much He loves them and how little concern He has to where they are in their walk. They belong to Him. He is going to take care of His sheep.
This is an interesting point. God will not be concerned as we understand concerned for He sees the beginning from the end. I believe God still hates sin and thus desires us to walk in alignment with His Word and His will for our lives. One can teach how much God loves a person and at the same time teach what pleases God in this life.
God bless you and please forgive me for the offenses.
Regarding me, there is no offense to forgive.
Lord Bless,
LT -
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Roy, there is only one thing that I would consider to be worthy of righteousness, and that is simply turning to Jesus and God the Father. Be blessed.
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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Roy,
The question starts out "When someone struggles with sins of the flesh....." and in reading through this topic, I see first thing...SINS OF THE FLESH!!! Why is it necessary to ridicule a person who is stating their belief on a particular topic? God has the situation under control. He will address the problem that a person has with correct understanding. Why do you need to do it? Are you wiser than God, Roy? Do you know more about what a person needs to learn than HE does?
We are all in a learning process, except for those that refuse to learn. Allow all to say what they believe. God will be the judge over what is spoken correctly and what is spoken out of lack of knowledge. Perhaps we all need to go back and study Job and his problem and the advice he received from his first 3 "friends" to understand that the person sitting in the judgement seat, Job, wasn't nearly as incorrect in what he spoke. Study what Elihu responded at the end. God didn't correct Him at all!
Let us consider a participant in each topic as a person, saved by Grace, responding in what the Lord has taught him and not speaking simply to have something to say.
Blessings,
Rita
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Rita,
To those I have offended, I ask forgiveness. I do sometimes get worked up when I see people putting our salvation dependent on how good of a life we live. I am confident Jesus is going to take care of them. I have faith in Jesus. He will not let us fail. He has paid too high of a price to allow any of us to be lost. He is going to take care of His children. Sometimes, people believe they are going to lose their relationship with Him because they have not been successful in their struggle with sin. At that point it is our job to jump in there and get them to refocus on Jesus and less upon themselves. Jesus is going to take care of their sinful habits. I could spend my time telling them what they should do and how they should live. I have noticed over my lifetime that this method doesn't work. They already know what they should do. They need to know how much God loves them through that very difficult process.
Again, please forgive me for any offense to you.
Roy
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