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children and discipline
Hi,
My 2.5 yr old son is displaying disobedient, defiant and disrespectful tendencies to my husband and I.
When we ask him to do something he often says, "No!" We have resorted to time outs, raising our voice, and bribing.
It dawned on me yesterday just how shameful this is to have a son who doesn't respect his parents and their authority. Our son has been allowed to run the show too long and I'm determined to consistently correct his rebellion with patience and firmness.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Jenny you are in a very difficult situation, for parenting should ideally be done by both parents displaying solidarity in their decisions and practices.
However you are in a position that many others have been in and yet they have successfully manage to instruct their child in the way they should go. God has honored their labor of love.
Be the wife the word calls you to be to your husband and the mother God calls you to be to your son. Be intentional, tactical, prudent and above all else loving. This situation has great potential to help you mature in Christ. It is a good situation because of that.
Hopefully others who have been in such predicament will give you some practical solutions.
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Jenny,
At one point I took Joshua to see a Christian psychologist. She was fantastic. I was very open with her about our family struggles and Joshua's struggles, but I didn't talk about it in front of Joshua-- while Joshua was present. I didn't want Joshua to know that he was meeting with someone because 'something was wrong with him'. I wanted him to be able to be completely relaxed and be himself. I simply wanted her to interact with him, ask some questions, observe etc.... She told me I had a normal very intelligent young boy who is extremely Strong Willed. His weaknesses are proving to be his strengths as he learns to focus them properly and persevere with the 'right' things. He is also learning that in his 'obedience' life goes well for him. His disobedience brings unfavourable results.
I believe Joshua has great potential... I tell him that all the time. I also remind him to ask God for help, and we do that together. Functioning in our own strength leads to a dark dreary place where we are groping in the dark.... Let's not go there. :-)
God's favor is on him.
Bless you, Carla
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IMUL,
my heart is breaking to hear of what you are going through with your son and the abuse he has endured.
I'll keep you in my prayers.
Bless you, Carla
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Jenny,
Do you have a Bible-believing pastor? If so, maybe an appointment with him would do just as well. It is very difficult for a mother to be responsible for the discipline of a child since God appears to have required that of the dad. I hesitate to speak since so much of our modern day discipline is done by the mothers. I don't want to make any of them angry. Sometimes a father will allow the mother to handle his responsibilities; but if he had to do it, he would. That might not be your case.
What would your husband do if you were in a public place and your son began to act up? Would he be embarrassed? What if you just didn't do anything about it? Would he be forced to do something? Often times, as long as the mother is willing to do the disciplining, the father will just allow it. Why is that? Sometimes they are afraid. That may sound crazy but it is true. They are afraid their son will win. They are afraid to spank because they are afraid of the government. They are afraid of what others will think. They are afraid they will get into a place where they will have no idea of what they should do. They need to understand that it is normal to be afraid. They are not the only ones that have left the discipline of the child to the mother.
A pastor might lead your husband to those parts of Scripture that deal with discipline. Some are pretty rough and some might reject them. For instance a verse might say something like: He who spares the rod hates his son; but he who loves him is careful to discipline him. Pro 13:24
Verses like that are pretty rough. I don't think I have heard a sermon on that for many years. Be encouraging to your husband. You must believe in him and let him know that you believe in him. God has put in your husband the resources to get the job done. Until it is simply an impossible task, I would put your faith in your husband to do the job. I think your husband is afraid. That is normal. He needs to see that he is the savior of your home. Some will never step up; but don't let it ever be because you stepped up for him. A husband can deal with a strong willed child. God has enabled him to do that.
The best advice I can give is to make your husband the savior of your home. If there is any way possible, do not take his place. Refuse to take over his responsibility if there is any way. If he just simply refuses to take his responsibility as the head of his home, you will find a lot of encouragement here on AAG. God has promised to be the father of the fatherless. There are many men that simply will not take that responsibility. I am praying for your husband to step up and be the man God intended him to be. It is God's will that the father become the spiritual head of the home. If there are any men reading this, I can guarantee that none are perfect at it and all need God's help. It is a major task and one that is almost impossible. Being the spiritual head of the home can only be done through the power of the Holy Spirit. None have the strength within themselves to do it. We are all failures but if we will do all we can, God will do the rest. Love covers a multitude of sins.
By the way, I don't think it is unlawful in Canada to spank your child. However, I might be wrong on that. If the child is older and reported the spanking to the authorities, you might be in some trouble. The time to discipline a child is when they are young. By the time they are in their teens, it is too late. At that point you must turn them over to God. I think your government is more interested in avoiding abusing a child rather than restricting a parent from disciplining the child. There are liberal factions in every country that will try to make you believe differently. They hate God and they hate His Word. These are the ones that will tell you that spanking is wrong and that it is against the law. I would not encourage you to break the law but I would encourage you to make sure that it is against the law before I dismissed it. I think there was a law introduced to ban spanking in Canada but I do not believe it ever passed. You Canadians would know more about that, however, than I.
Jenny, I only am posting this just in case there is a possibility that your husband would take up discipline as a part of his role as a father.
Blessings to you and I pray that I have not been offensive.
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Jenny,
I think you still have time to do this. I know how tough it will be. However, your response (which I had no idea how you would respond) tells me that you have a heart for God and that you do love your husband. God wants him to obey Him and instruct your son. I think I would allow your son to really act up in public and see what happened. I would not let it get to the point that the state would take over.
God has given your husband the tools. He need not fear. No one will ever be perfect but I would not take this opportunity away from your husband unless there is just no other option. He sounds a little immature with the it hurts my brain to think about that. It is time for him to grow up and take his responsibility seriously. I would let him know that God has made him the head of your household and you are going to defer to him in the main decisions of raising this boy. Even if he does it wrong, it might end up better than you trying to do it on your own.
Some will disagree with me and I do want you to seriously pray about it. If God leads you to take over this role, it is because He knows your husband will never submit to His authority. I pray in Jesus name, that is not the case.
By the way, your husband is exactly like most of us men - if you will do it, we will let you.
Roy
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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Jenny,
Back when I was raising my children, I was a believer in discipline. I believe in discipline from a early age, so I start hand smacking and spankings at an early age, probably about 18 months. By the time my kids were about 6 or so., I no longer had to spank. They had the rules down pat at that age. The kids knew how far I would go. They rarely *pushed my buttons*. My boys, who are now grown men, discipline in the manner that I disciplined. One of them, whose son is 17, nearly 18, ceased administering spankings at about the same age. One can reason with my grandson.
The other son, who has two small kids, administers spankings as his kids need it.
And the we get to my daughter. She was strong in discipline but her husband wasn't. They live next door to me so I see what goes on in this argument that is ongoing in light of children being disciplined. I disciplined those grands as well, similar to the way I disciplined my children. Because of fear of the government, my son-in-law wouldn't spank his children. They obey him not at all. He calls me to chastise them. They obey me. They listen to my daughter some. They listen to son-in-law not at all. Problem is that they are grown, the oldest is 20. They know that if they don't listen, they are going to be in deep trouble when it comes to me.
The government has made such a huge issue of physical discipline to all of us that some people are actually afraid to discipline their children for fear that they will be reported by the CHILD. The problem is that the government doesn't live with the child, we do. They don't take the responsibility for the wrongs the child commits...we do.
One problem that is ongoing is my X daughter-in-law disciplines not at all. She tolerates her children doing as they please. (Son with small children. Therefore, they have no guidelines to follow. Ergo, spankings every weekend at grandma's house. My granddaughter was especially bad this past weekend and her dad made her apologize to me before she left. That about killed her to do it but she did it anyway.
All kids need discipline. They need to know where the line is drawn. Once this is established, they will be less likely to cross it. They will understand what is allowed and what isn't. I agree with David...discipline needs to be administered by parents of like mind. You need to do it together. If your husband doesn't discipline now....later the child will just blow him off. His opinion ceases to matter.
The Bible say *spare the rod, hate the child.* This is a true statement. Parents who haven't disciplined their children, showing them how far they can go, end up with unruly children. Jenny, you may have to be the person in your family that administers the justice for wrongdoing. Spankings give kids a certain amount of security. They have it well established what they can do and what they can't. As they grow up, they will recall these disciplines you have established.
Blessings as you carry out this long task of rearing you child to produce one who is honoring and honored...
Rita
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Permalink Reply by Jenny on
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thank you Rita,
where i live (in Canada) spanking is considered child abuse. i know a woman who had her son because he mentioned to someone that she had spanked him. he was taken, no questions asked.
i am praying that my swift removal of my son from his activity and into the corner until he submits and complies with a willing heart will be enough.
my plan is to keep him near me at all times so i can immediately correct wrong behaviour or attitudes, outlast him and be very consistent.
i know i have a huge task ahead of me. i would appreciate any further advice you might have in light of what i have said here.
have a good day,
jenny
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Jenny,
Unfortunately, the USA government thinks the same way....that spanking is abuse. They also have other things that are abuse....not allowing illegal immigrants residency, voting rights, welfare...they count those things as abuse also. They never consider the problem of the parent who is trying to bring up a child *in the way they should go* no more than they are considering the effects of their attitudes are causing a problem for the the legal citizens of this country.
Unfortunately, I don't know what the laws of your country are. I do know what God says. His laws don't match the laws of my country. The law of my country says to make all suffer because of the errors of a few. God doesn't even imply that. They say because of the law breaking of a few, let all suffer. God doesn't say that.
I know you have a tough job ahead of you, but I am praying for you...that you will search God's Word first for your direction in the rearing of your child. May you be blessed throughout you life for a job well done.....not knowing the anguish of a job not done God's way....
Blessings...
Rita
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Rita,
I agree with you completely. Yet, I know many who still spank with tremendous results. I spanked very consistently as you did with complete success. All five of my children are now grown raising children of their own. They are all serving God and none are disobedient. Also, none are perfect but just about as close to perfection as you can get. Rita, you are giving excellent advice straight from the pages of Scripture.
Roy
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Jenny,
I wanted to put this video in your discussion but have no understanding of of how one does that. However, this is worth 3 minutes of listening time.
.youtube.com/embed/H3Az0okaHig?rel=0>
The actual problem, in my humble opinion, comes from the way we rear our children,. What values do we give them? Do we discipline or do we let them do as they please? The things in this video are originated in how we bring up our children. What values are we instilling in them. How will they conduct themselves when they are adults? What values will they hold as important?Blessings...Rita
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Hi Jenny,
My youngest son had many many tantrums over several years... It started when he was about 2 years old. He's now 9. We have come so far because of God's faithfulness. I'm so thankful for the Lord's help... I urge you to continue to pray. God is faithful. It truly can't be worse than the things we went through with our little Joshua...
Joshua would say things like "I wish you were dead"... "I hate you"... ..and many other things.
ha--I wish it were only 'NO'. No is defiant and it was part of the things he would say and do...It's disrespectful and makes parenting SO miserable... It will improve. Please be encouraged.
He would tear apart his bedroom... he kicked holes in the wall....he kicked a glass window pane out of a door..he would punch, scratch, scream... I was weary, discouraged, hurt and puzzled. The enemy had a field day with me ...with lies such as 'you're a terrible mom'.. etc...
Things got so bad with Joshua for a while that he actually got kicked out of kindergarten when he was 5, and I homeschooled him.
Please just be encouraged that as you pray and ask for wisdom and help, God will bring it to you.
A couple things God showed me...
~Joshua needed one or several sports as a physical outlet. This was one of the first things I did---I enrolled him in sports.
~Joshua needed to understand that he is the child in this relationship,and he needed to learn submission.
~Joshua is very bright...at the time, he wasn't being challenged in the school system (now he's fine)
~Joshua is very relational. He needed constant one on one interaction to help stimulate his learning and also that he would know he is loved and valued. I recommend reading the book 'The Five love languages'. Spend the time to determine what his love language is---also very helpful for the rest of your family.
~be consistent.
~if you say you're going to do something--follow thru with it.
~when you discipline him -- make sure the discipline you choose doesn't hurt the relationship. ie: be careful to not take away quiet cuddle/reading time.
~timeouts did not work for Joshua
~spankings didn't work for Joshua (he would respond something like 'is that all you got?")
~STAY COOL. If you loose your temper, you are giving him the message that his behaviour is too much for you to handle.
I would say these words to Joshua... "Your behaviour is not too much for me" ...I only had to say it to him twice.
~If he is strong willed, than it quite literally is a power struggle, and he is testing the boundaries to see how far he can go.
Trust me--he wants the boundaries, and he will thank you for it when he gets older.
One year ( I think it was his 4th birthday), I cancelled his birthday party. That had an impact on him.
Be careful to remember to pray over him especially while he sleeps.. Pray that God protects his heart. As these kids act out badly, they know it's wrong, and their guilt gives the enemy an 'in' to speak the lies to them that they are unloved and unwanted. Always remind him that he is loved and wanted and valued. Remind him that he is God's child, and that he has great worth---in the same breath remind him that you will not tolerate his bad behaviour. Don't think he's too young to understand. Kids are smart... especially these kids of the Strong Willed variety.
One of the things God put in my hands is this book: "The New Strong Willed Child" by Dr. James Dobson.
Joshua has come SO far... When I think about it, it brings tears to my eyes because I am so proud of him.
There was a newspaper article written about him locally in our neighbourhood because he heard of a little girl with cancer (4 years old).. Joshua organized and served hot chocolate and hot apple cider out of the end of our driveway to raise $700.00 for her so that her family could afford a wig while she was going thru treatments.
Joshua is a straight 'A' student in school.
He's been in baseball camp for much of the summer..although he's done that now. he brought a cooler to share with the other campers... Ice cold water to pour over their heads for when it gets too hot. He was very happy to share that water to make sure that players were not getting too hot.
He's smart, funny and athletic.
He's playing baseball this year on a little league team... It's his first year, and he is one of the star players. This is the first year that he was ready to join a 'team'. He is blossoming. Only God can do this.
Joshua is a natural leader.
MOST IMPORTANTLY-- He loves the Lord. HE KNOWS HE NEEDS A SAVIOUR! Hallelujah!
Joshua is a new creation. The old has gone the new has come. I can see fruit in his life at only 9 years old.
Imagine-- a 9 year old with a testimony... and a proud mom (and dad) :-)
Bless you, Carla
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Carla,
I can't begin to tell you the joy and encouragement I found in your message.
Praise the Lord for His work in your dear son's life! I felt teary reading the amazing transformation the Lord has wrought in your son's heart. What a wonderful thing to know the Lord works in the hearts of children as well as adults.
Your message gives me hope that I am doing the right thing with staying consistent and firm but loving. Thanks also for the other tips for what God showed you about your son.
What especially struck a chord was, "If you loose your temper, you are giving him the message that his behaviour is too much for you to handle." Sober reminder! What a great way to deal with a willful child with, "Your behaviour is not too much for me". I thank the Lord for that piece of advice as I imagine he will be able to understand that soon.
Thank you again,
Jenny
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