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Greetings all,

 

I am curious regarding people's POV on this subject.

 

I'll present four views, but am most interested in the fourth.

 

Four conditions:

1) A person is saved and they know it.

2) A person is not saved and they know it.

3) A person thinks they are saved, but are not saved.

4) A person is saved, but does not know it.

 

Lord BLess,

LT

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I think if you are saved, you have a relationship with GOD---you have confessed and accepted Christ as your lord and savior and know that HE died for your sins. We are all here by God's grace---not because we did something deserving. We all have fallen short, so it is important everyday to continue with your relationship so you will know that you are saved. It's not a guessing game---it's your salvation. FAITH, FAITH, and FAITH
LT,

When I read your question I immediately thought about the four conditions you have already mentioned. I heard R.C. Sproul teach on the subject about assurance of salvation in which he makes mentions of them.

A person can be save and not have assurance of their salvation that is for sure. Especially the ones that believe that salvation can be lost. If they fall and find themselves in habitual sin, the condemnation will be great and the doubts about their salvation multiply. Thank be to God that He will keep you even if we have an erroneous view about such matters, but I am digressing from your question.

I strongly believe that no one can have a personal encounter with the Lord in which they were born again/regenerated and not know they now belong to Him. So in one sense no one can be saved and not know it, but then again there are those who grew up in Christian homes and did not have a drastic experience when they came to the Lord. They cannot even tell you when it happened; because it was a very gradual shift and this portion of the family also tends to struggle with their assurance. Especially when they compare testimonies of knuckle heads like me experiencing such a drastic change from darkness to light. Hence their mistake comparing experiences, when one should solidly base our beliefs in the word of God. God says you are saved and have eternal life and that settles it.

I do know folks who are saved and do not have assurance of their salvation. They even think those of us who have assurance of our salvation to be arrogant and prideful for having such assurance. He will finish what He started in me. He does not need my permission to keep me.

In a nutshell, which is extremely hard for me to do hahaha a person who is born again can doubt their salvation.

ASSURANCE IS NOT AN OPTION FOR US!!!! THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE SETTLED IN OUR LIFES. THAT WE ARE IN CHRIST FOREVER MORE.
omg that was very inspirational. I was wondering when you hear his voice do it sound like a different person or like an awareness within you because I notice a feeling in me like a consciousness that say don't do this or calms me when I pray.
Hi LT,

Interesting topic.

I agree with Linda that a person can be in the process of Salvation and not know it...God draws us to Himself and gets our attention through various circumstances.

I also agree with BeaJolly though. When we are saved, we know it.
However, I think that Linda's point leads us to BeaJolly's point.

However, there is another circumstance...I have a friend like this..she does not believe she is saved... The circumstance is that this person has a very difficult time in her life.. but she thinks on the Lord all the time, and she fears that she is not saved.. but, my question is.......Would a person who is not saved even care? If she is not saved, why does she care so much, and why does she think about Jesus so much? I know people who are not saved, and they don;t care..we all know them...we were them at one point. :)

Perhaps her questioning her salvation is enemy attack, and she doesn't have any knowledge of who she is in Christ...perhaps... or perhaps not. But she knows that Jesus is the only way to God, and she does pray.

I don't know if we could ever get an answer to this... interesting topic to discuss though..

Blessings to all.. Love in Christ, Carla
Hi Linda,

I know very well what you speak of... I just went through open heart surgery 6 months ago now from a congenital heart defect.. Now I am a heart patient. My heart is otherwise healthy..a tiny bit enlarged due to it having to work so hard to pump the blood through a valve that was nearly completely closed off. (it was sever aortic stenosis) God uses these circumstances for His purposes...and our testimonies for Hsi faithfulness speak volumes to those who are suffering and don't know Him...but also to those who perhaps feel abandoned by God. I have found, that God has also used this to bless me with tremendous faith in Him...and HE does that for each one of us as we turn to Him...especially in sickness. You are right when you say God is faithful...

Life has returned to 'relatively normal' for me now since my surgery...but i really do understand all that you have said. Few understand it until they suffer a sickness of their own.

One of the symptoms of my heart defect was constant dizziness, the other was difficulty breathing. Have they done a heart ultrasound?

I feel for you...I wish I were there to sit with you...we'd have a grand 'ol time together sis...

Love in Christ, Carla
God Bless you Linda...FYI---hubby did mention a possible trip to Australia next March for a couple weeks... :)
Hi LT,

here is my POV

1) A person is saved and they know it.
yes after a tremendous amount of trials and the crucible test. God chooses who he wants to do his will in his timing

2) A person is not saved and they know it.
yes if still a sinner; crucial to repent be forgiven and live under the law of righteousness goodness truth, follow Gods commandments etc.

3) A person thinks they are saved, but are not saved.

you can not think you are saved, you must know and you will know by their fruit ie. good faith, good deeds, good leadership, good actions, is inspirational, has strong belief in God, all credits to the Father, has no need to boast about things for people will see
They should not sin anymore if they still sin something is wrong, when reborn you do not live in the flesh but in the spirit of Christ conquering sin......... knowing God will not forsake you.

4) A person is saved, but does not know it.
yes i look at the lives of many good people who have lived long healthy stress-free very caring lives and yet do not know Jesus or believe in God. I go by the saying no one who does not deserve to be in Hell will be there. In addition why would God not allow such a good person to live a long healthy life if they did not accept Jesus. The person will be judged in the end, not our job to condemn people for not being saved we should be busy loving others shining light ans loving God, its all about love so when you hurt someone by saying they are not saved it brings their spirits down and hopes of a good life fails to be acquired and obtained

If someone told me I was not saved and yet I lived a good life and cared and shared and did good things and believed in the good of this world I would be very hurt to be told that i am going to hell or are not saved at all.

If all Christians believed in the goodness of the Lord and would profess how and why they are so good and live happy lives I believe more people would come into the light and come to love Jesus. Unfortunately, many Christians of all religions still judge others and do not show loving kindness with one another or raise one another up, therefore it comes off as hypocritical to people who do not wish to believe in God.

For why should someone believe in a faith that has people living hypocritical lives that does not even follow their commandments love God and love others?

This is why many Christians fail at times to bring others into the love of God because not enough are recognizing why God is so good and not enough Christians are living up to there commandments of serving the Lord and Loving others.

I have a friend that wants to believe in Jesus Christ but she is afraid that people will not accept her since she would be considered a new believer. I told her not to worry about what others think for if they judge her and are not welcoming her presence then they will have their share.

Again I say that is why it is crucial to be a good follower of Christ because people will look at your actions to see what good God is all about. See we all serve as members of God who is GOOD. So we too must be all things good.
We cannot be hypocrites because we set the example of what it means to be faithful to God.




Nonetheless I pray that many will come to know His name and recognize Jesus as the Lord Savior.

God has all control in the end and he will decide who will know for sure if they are saved or not. In the mean time we are to be compassionate and loving to others who are perishing b/c tho we are eternally saved and at joy and in peace we must not boast of the new lives we live.

We should or I hope we are all living in peace and in love serving the Lord God Almighty and obeying his commandments, and waiting on his call anytime he calls for you.

I believe you become reborn for a huge call in the timing that HE sees fit to fulfill his will. You will be summoned and awakened spiritually to bring Glory to God.

Every person serves a purpose whether reborn or not. And for the ones already reborn they have been chosen for a reason to bring Great Glory to God and to be the light of the world, chosen ones wait for every new command by God...following his call in prudence.
Shorty -

You make me want to SCREEMMMMMM AT TIMES, AHHHHHHHH YOU GONNA MAKE ME GO TO DIEGO AND KICK YOU GIRL. HAHAHA HAHAHA - JUST KIDDING.I do feel much better now, after that scream. IT WOULD BE A LOVING KICK OK! OHHH MY BAD NO EXCLAMATION POINTS HAHAHA HAHAHA THAT ONE IS SO YOU FEEL ME AND FEEL LIKE SCREMING TOO HEHE I know, I know me so bad, so bad.

You said: If someone told me I was not saved and yet I lived a good life and cared and shared and did good things and believed in the good of this world I would be very hurt to be told that I am going to hell or are not saved at all.

Girl what bible are you reading? Have you notice how Jesus, the Apostles approach folks that thought their good lives would get them into heaven? The Lord was hardest on such folks who depended on their own righteousness to make it to heaven. Jesus would straight up tell them, you are going to hell unless you turn to me. The Apostles did the same.

To tell people different is to lie to them and to not care about the fact that unless they REPENT, believe and confess Christ as Lord they are heading straight to Hell in an express jet. No matter how moral and values they are and practice.


Check it out dude:
2 Corinthians 7:9
Now I rejoice, not that you were made sorry, but that your sorrow led to repentance. For you were made sorry in a godly manner, that you might suffer loss from us in nothing.


Yes, to tell people that their good lives count for nothing when it comes to being saved may make them feel bad. They may be full of sorrow or hit you over the head and tell you are crazy hahaha but it is our Christian duty to tell them they are heading to hell.

What do you think we are saved from? We are saved from the Wrath of God! We are in enmity with God, at war with Him before we are born again.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

Ephesians 2:16
and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

James 4:4
Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.
wowowowow calm down bro lol do you want me to edit the comment? lol jk

Bro first off I praise God and thank Jesus all day and everyday and people know me and they sure do know I believe in God.

my post was in no reference to my own personal experience of my life for it is all about God and has been since I was a young young one.

I talk a lot with others like literallllly for many hours of deep conversations that relate to God in one way or another and I mention God many times lol and I explain and break down sooo much all while praying in my head that with every word I say I am bringing Glory to God.

I understand what you are saying and I pray that God has mercy on the souls who do not want to believe or accept Jesus.

I really do shine the light in all that I do and it amazes me how people will still not believe even after I break the word down and spend countless hours explaining everything from evidence in my life to the new blessings of the Lord and to explaining how blessed their own life is to be alive right now. I talk about God with all my friends and whoever comes to me and I confront those who think that they are all that and a bag of chips lol and say hmm well I hope you know why and that Jesus sure does want to get to know you. I let it be known that it is all about God and Jesus sacrifice on the cross lol
Mayan i listen very carefully to every word that comes out of the mouth of the person I am talking to so that I may understand their predicaments lol I go nuts lol
I do all that I can do with the Lord in me to help
I pray that with every breathe I take I bring Glory to God

What this tells me is that I cannot force people to believe and so fine be with me. I probably could have helped them in other ways to show them how to come to know Jesus but maybe the people I talk to are not willing to share their deep broken problems with me so where do i go from there? I say Lord have mercy on your soul kindly then leave with a prayer in my head asking God to help them to know Jesus.

If I can't do it someone else will.


:) <3


All in Gods timing :) <3


I have no idea if this explanation will clear anything but I hope it does lol
Shorty-

It did not explained jack to me, but that is quite ok grasshopper. hahaha
Just messing with you Shorty. You have expressed yourself beautifully.

You know i got nothing but love for you.... late
hahhahaahh you whacko tis good same here all love to you in Christ

Peace out :) <3
I have to agree with David V. on that one. Doing good deeds do not get you into heaven. Many people go around thinking that being good or doing something good will get them into heaven---no, no, no---we are not doing God a favor by doing good deeds. Jesus died on the cross for our sin---we have to confess, accept, and know what the bible says about eternal life--getting into heaven:

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

I John 5:11 ...God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

I John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Bottom line---JESUS has already made a way for us---the hard work was done when he obeyed his Father and died on the cross.

Let's go back to the Holy Week---Jesus knew what was about to happen---Jesus triumphal entry into Jerusalem---the last supper----his betrayal---the beating and carrying the cross, the thron crown, then the crucifixion---and the Resurrection. HE paid the price for us---nothing we did to deserve it and NOTHING JESUS DID TO DESERVE TO BE CRUCIFIED---but all because HE LOVED US THAT MUCH.

Only through Jesus can we get to Heaven to the Father!!!

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