All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
God or the devil?
Before you leave your mouth hanging open too long on that title, my question is simply this....
A member here was considering involvement in something when two small tragedies struck their home in the last two weeks.
I have heard it said that that is when you press on through, that it's satan keeping you from doing what God wants you to do.
Ok...what if it's not satan? What if it's God saying DON'T!? How does one know the difference? I know we can't just ascribe things that go wrong in our lives to God or satan either because God says we'll have trouble. He didn't say that satan is going to cause every trouble in our lives, just that we'll have it. So why assume satan is fighting you from moving forward or that God is stopping you from making a mistake, or perhaps that it's neither?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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God or the Devil - It is almost always both. I will explain later.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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It is dangerous for us to see our lives as a chess match between good and evil and that we are somehow the pawns being played. God's Word tells us that we have a calling and that we also have been given liberty to live a life that honors Him and His Word. The Word tells us that God brings the sun and the rain on both good and evil. We also know that God has brought destruction on the wicked and has also disciplined His children. We also know the enemy wars against the work of God and His children. Yet, does this mean that every instance is a warfare move on the part of God or Satan or do we live life in a fallen world, with fallen people, while in the fallen flesh so that good things and bad things happen because our sovereign God has given man liberties and these liberties affect other people (not just the one person). God has also established the natural laws of nature as well as because of sin the whole of creation is cursed and man is appointed to die physically.
Thus, not everything is a direct move by the hand of God or the hand of Satan. Sometimes it is just life being lived out in a world that is fallen as we and others make daily choices. For ever event there is a causation, but not every causation need flow from the hand of God, the hand of Satan or even from evil or good intent of man.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Well scripture does say that every good thing comes from God, and therefore people reason that every bad thing comes from satan. And with many scriptures that give instances where men (or angels even) were hindered by satan, I can see how it can sometimes be satan hindering something and sometimes how it can be God urging us into something or preventing us from something, as there are also scriptures which illustrate God hedging people in or blocking them. Look at Balam's donkey for instance.
But you have people who also carry it to an extreme. They use it to explain everything. One day they can tell you this is God, He's opening a door, and the next day, when it all goes under, well if God shuts one door, He'll open another, or it wasn't God's timing or God was protecting you from making a mistake. But when it's something they don't agree with it's God would want you to move forward in this or that and whenever that old devil gets in your way, you keep going anyway. If God's called you to do something, the devil is going to fight you to keep you from moving forward in God's will.
I can see that all of these can be correct, but not in the way they're often used. If something is God's will one day, we can't just up and say it must not have been His will the next when it didn't work out. That's just a way to appease our own minds instead of simply saying I don't know why this or that happened but it is what it is.
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First, what is a good thing as defined by Scripture? Is everything in our life either a good thing or bad thing ... or is there a place for things really being neither good or bad.
Secondly, the question is not can God or Satan do these various things, but do they always do them ... are one or the other behind every action operating as the causation ... the answer is "No."
Thirdly, there are many who take things to the extreme. I know a person who prays asking God which color dress she should wear today. God gives us a wide berth when it comes to our liberties, and at the same time holds the right to interact at any time.
Lastly, you said:
I can see that all of these can be correct, but not in the way they're often used. If something is God's will one day, we can't just up and say it must not have been His will the next when it didn't work out. That's just a way to appease our own minds instead of simply saying I don't know why this or that happened but it is what it is.
I reply ... absolutely.
Lord Bless,
LT
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First, what is a good thing as defined by Scripture? Is everything in our life either a good thing or bad thing ... or is there a place for things really being neither good or bad.
By our standards or God's? ;-) I can't answer that but maybe you can explain 2 verses in relation to the question...
Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Thirdly, there are many who take things to the extreme. I know a person who prays asking God which color dress she should wear today. God gives us a wide berth when it comes to our liberties, and at the same time holds the right to interact at any time.
Sadly I know such a person. She's been in and out of mental institutions and was declared incompetent so her father is her guardian. She's in another mental hospital for a couple months now and they estimated a 6 months stay at least.
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Eric, what I mean is if scripture attributes everything good to God does that mean when anything good happens that it was God's will and design? Same as when bad happens, do we always ascribe it to satan? And if so, how do you know if satan was stopping you from doing something that could have been good or when God is stopping you from doing something He knows could turn out bad?
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Well take Joseph for instance. Like you said things that seem difficult becoming a victory. Did satan influence his brothers or was it just man's sinful nature? If Joseph had had a dream that evil would befall him if he went out to his brothers that day and so remained behind, was the dream from God? But then how would God have worked him into the second in command to Pharaoh had he not gone out? So would the dream have been from satan keeping him from being used in that manner?
In this case, he has the personal behavior, but if he's doing what he personally thought God was directing him to and it turns out he was wrong.....
So I wonder...Is it that we hear this or that from God and act upon what we feel He's saying to us, and sometimes get it right and sometimes get it wrong, or is it that we seek to do what is in the Word and make decisions based on the Word and not on what we think He might be personally saying, just do the best we can do while living the life He gives us to live in scripture and know that whatever happens He can use for good, regardless of whether we're wrong or right in our choices?
See I did that for awhile because it's how I believed things went. I would listen for that "inner voice". And I found that inner voice is more like inner voice(S). And the three voices (Gods, mine and satans), only served to confuse me rather than just listening to the written Word of God and not trying to figure out what He might personally be saying and worrying if I was listening to the wrong voice or not.
I think this is an issue with the Pentecostal and Charismatic beliefs (maybe others). They teach us to obey that inner voice, whichever brings peace (and sometimes nothing brings peace because you're so bound up in whether you're going to follow the wrong voice). And then they teach if it doesn't work out then you heard the wrong voice. I don't believe God makes His voice that difficult to hear that we'll be hearing the wrong one to follow. But it's man making it hard by trying to tell us how to hear His voice when His voice is plainly written in His Word.
That's not to say I don't believe God speaks to us. But I don't believe that everything we hear inside is of God and some people put so much emphasis on...God said this and God said that. God told me to do this or do that. I was for a time and made some bad mistakes.
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I'm starting to wonder. The way I've been taught was only serving to leave me confused because I was trying to do everything based on what I felt God was saying to do, even if it didn't make sense. For instance, I moved where I am because I thought I was being led to move there. It is not a place I would have chosen and I now have to deal with that choice. I've spent a couple of years questioning if God really wanted me stuck in this situation, if He was sticking me out in the wilderness for some purpose...a purpose which was not made known to me and so I was left just guessing at everything. I don't think God wants us spinning our wheels trying to "guess" what He's up to. That's not freedom from bondage but keeps us bound up in turmoil.
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By our standards or God's? ;-) I can't answer that but maybe you can explain 2 verses in relation to the question... Luke 16:25 and James 1:17.
What good thing or comfort from this world did the rich man take with him after death? How often people whine and moan about not having the comforts of this word as if God is denying them of some right. What did Jesus say about these things when related to Him?
Luk 9:58-62 NIV84 Jesus replied, "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head." (59) He said to another man, "Follow me." But the man replied, "Lord, first let me go and bury my father." (60) Jesus said to him, "Let the dead bury their own dead, but you go and proclaim the kingdom of God." (61) Still another said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say good-by to my family." (62) Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God."
Too many today (especially in western culture) want a Christianity that costs them nothing. Salvation is free, but living as a child of God is difficult. The apostles gave up everything to follow. A great read that I often refer to, which is far better that the prosperity books we find out today, is Foxe’s Book of Martyrs. Most today, and I am confident of this statement, if faced with such challenges that these folks experienced would walk away and blend back into the world.
What about James 1:17? What is a gift of God according to Scripture? Let’s take a look in the NT.
Gifts from God are the following:
1. Salvation: John 4:10; Romans 5:15-16; Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8; Revelation 22:17)
2. Holy Spirit: Acts 1:4; Acts 2:38; Acts 8:20; Acts 10:45; Luke 11:13)
3. Gifts of the Spirit (or spiritual gifts): Romans 1:11; 1 Corinthians 1:7; ! Corinthians 7:7; 1 Corinthians 13:2; 1 Corinthians 14:1; 1 Timothy 4:14; 2 Timothy 1:6; 1 Peter 4:10; 1 Corinthians 12 (whole chapter); Hebrews 2:4.
4. God’s Grace: Ephesians 3:7.
5. Righteousness: Romans 5:17.
6. Indescribable Gift: 2 Corinthians 9:15.
7. Heavenly gift: Hebrews 6:4.
8. Life: 1 Peter 3:7.
Take note that the gifts of God are irrevocable (2 Corinthians 9:15). If that be true, and that is what God has said, then can we proclaim that riches, fame or other things of this world qualify as a perfect gift of God? Are any of these things irrevocable? What about the list from Scripture? Salvation, Holy Spirit, Spiritual Gifts, etc … Are they revocable or irrevocable?
Thus, this reminds me of the Hymn:
Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus
O soul are you weary and troubled?
No light in the darkness you see?
There’s light for a look at the Savior
And life more abundant and free
Turn your eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of His glory and grace
Through death into life everlasting
He passed and we follow Him there
Over us sin no more hath dominion
For more than conquerors we are
Turn your eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of His glory and grace
His Word shall not fail you – He promised
Believe Him and all will be well
Then go to a world that is dying
His perfect salvation to tell
Turn your eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of His glory and grace
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That's not what I was meaning by that. You said " Is everything in our life either a good thing or bad thing". This is why I asked about "and likewise Lazarus evil things". Some translations say he received only bad things. So here's an instance in scripture where everything in one's life was bad.
As for the rest, Psalms 27:12 always comes up: "I would have fainted, unless I had believed that I would see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living."
I always go back to this when I think we're only supposed to expect to have it bad on earth. It tells me we're to expect to see God's goodness here on earth and that we're not supposed to think we'll only see it in heaven.
We're not supposed to expect everything to be a bed of roses but expecting everything to be a bed of nails is defeatist.
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Two comments:
1) It is not defeatist to recognize that we are in a spiritual war that bleeds over into the physical realm. It is not defeatist to recognize that we are strangers here, aliens out of place.
2) What is good? What is a good gift? Subjective if we leave the definition to men and women, but very specific when related to God and His gifts to us. There are many things in this life need not be qualified as good or evil ... they just are, and often they depend on how man uses them. We are given all kinds of choices in life that need not be the cause of Satan or God working for or waring against us ... it is just life.
I read the following on Facebook the other day:
Everything happens for a reason. Sometimes I make bad choices and do stupid things.
BTW: Is Psalm 27:13 talking about things that are good or the goodness of God Himself? (Compare to Psalm 31:19)
Lord Bless,
LT
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I would believe it's a bit of both. Christ never turned away those who sought Him for healing...something good to enhance their quality of life while needing to live in this world.
Your FB quote goes back to the main question, which was what's that reason? God, satan, man? If God, wouldn't He make it plain enough you wouldn't even question if you'd heard Him or not?
I'd start with the simplest of "good"...needs. It is good to have food when hungry, a roof when snowing, shoes when walking, etc. Some people don't even get those yet keep trusting God is going to provide. If they didn't they would faint (lose hope). Scripture says He heals all our diseases and we shall not lack...just as He feeds the sparrows and clothes the lilies.
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