Trinity - All About GOD2024-03-28T20:34:31Zhttp://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/trinity-1?commentId=1383940%3AComment%3A524994&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWhat I perceive is, that you…tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2018-11-05:1383940:Comment:17666242018-11-05T20:07:33.088ZJBhttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/JoeBoyce
<p>What I perceive is, that you do not know, or understand the difference in Jesus, and Christ. </p>
<p>Christ is not the last name of Jesus, Christ is an epithet of Jesus, it was Jesus The Christ, The anointed of God. Jesus was the son of Man, Christ is the Son of God. We are children of God by virtue of Christ in us, John one KJV To as many as have received Him gave He power to become the Sons of God, even to those that believe on His Name.</p>
<p>God was in Christ Reconciling the world unto…</p>
<p>What I perceive is, that you do not know, or understand the difference in Jesus, and Christ. </p>
<p>Christ is not the last name of Jesus, Christ is an epithet of Jesus, it was Jesus The Christ, The anointed of God. Jesus was the son of Man, Christ is the Son of God. We are children of God by virtue of Christ in us, John one KJV To as many as have received Him gave He power to become the Sons of God, even to those that believe on His Name.</p>
<p>God was in Christ Reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them. (paraphrased) Using CHRIST as an epithet for Jesus.</p>
<p>Lets look at Eph.1, (my bible wont come up, so I will quote it the best I can.) I think around Verse. 16, or 17, Qt. That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory would give unto you the Spirit of wisdom, and revelation of the knowledge of Him, that the eyes of your understanding would be enlightened, that ye may know what is the hope of His calling, and what the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, which He wrought in <em><strong>Christ</strong></em>, <em><strong>(an epithet of Jesus)</strong></em> when He raised Him from the dead, and <em><strong>set Him at His own right hand</strong></em> in heavenly places. Far above all principality, and power, and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come, and hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to head over all things to the Church, which is His body, the fullness of Him that filleth all in all. (<strong>emphasis mine</strong>)</p>
<p>Who is He talking about in John 1? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men....14th. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, <strong><em>(and we beheld His glory as of the only begotten of the Father</em></strong>), full of grace and truth.</p>
<p>Who is He talking about here? </p>
<p>I found this pretty interesting, In Heb. 1: God at sundry times and in diverse manners, spake in times past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us <em><strong>by His Son</strong></em>, who He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds. Who being the brightness of His glory, and the <em><strong>express image</strong></em> of His person, upholding all things by the Word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high. Being made so much better than the angels, as He hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Now go back to John 1: again, In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. God is speaking to us today through His Word, the Words of God, is Him speaking to us. (Not by the prophets) but by His Word, the same as Christ.</p>
<p>(Express image) Strong's Con. Cord. #5481 Khar-ak-tare, a graver (the tool or the person), i.e. by impl. engraving ([character] <em>the figure stamped</em> i.e. an exact copy or [fig.] representation) <strong>EXPRESS IMAGE</strong></p>
<p>I just happened to remember, Mat.11:25, When Jesus said Qt. I thank thee oh Father Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and revealed them unto babes. Even so Father so it seems good in thy sight, <span style="text-decoration: underline;">ALL THINGS ARE DELIVERED UNTO ME OF MY FATHER,</span> AND NO MAN KNOWETH THE SON BUT THE FATHER, NEITHER KNOWETH ANY MAN THE FATHER SAVE THE SON, AND TO WHOMSOEVER THE SON WILL REVEAL HIM....</p>
<p>JB</p> I and the Father are one.”…tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2018-11-03:1383940:Comment:17664092018-11-03T22:08:10.938ZTammyhttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/TammyHenson
<p><span class="text Matt-1-23" id="en-NKJV-23168"><sup class="versenum"> <span>I and the Father are one.” John 10:30 </span></sup></span></p>
<p><span class="text Matt-1-23" id="en-NKJV-23168"><span class="oblique">“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,”</span> which is translated, “God with us.” Matt 1:23</span></p>
<p><span class="text Matt-1-23"><span class="text Isa-9-6" id="en-NKJV-17836">For unto us a Child is…</span></span></p>
<p><span id="en-NKJV-23168" class="text Matt-1-23"><sup class="versenum"> <span>I and the Father are one.” John 10:30 </span></sup></span></p>
<p><span id="en-NKJV-23168" class="text Matt-1-23"><span class="oblique">“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,”</span> which is translated, “God with us.” Matt 1:23</span></p>
<p><span class="text Matt-1-23"><span id="en-NKJV-17836" class="text Isa-9-6">For unto us a Child is born,</span><br/><span class="text Isa-9-6">Unto us a Son is given;</span><br/><span class="text Isa-9-6">And the government will be upon His shoulder.</span><br/><span class="text Isa-9-6">And His name will be called</span><br/><span class="text Isa-9-6">Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,</span><br/><span class="text Isa-9-6">Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Is 9:6</span></span></p>
<p><span class="text Matt-1-23"><span class="text Isa-9-6"><span id="en-NKJV-18516" class="text Isa-43-10">“You <i>are</i> My witnesses,” says the <span class="small-caps divine-name">Lord</span>,</span><br/><span class="text Isa-43-10">“And My servant whom I have chosen,</span><br/><span class="text Isa-43-10">That you may know and believe Me,</span><br/><span class="text Isa-43-10">And understand that I <i>am</i> He.</span><br/><span class="text Isa-43-10">Before Me there was no God formed,</span><br/><span class="text Isa-43-10">Nor shall there be after Me. Is 43:10</span></span></span></p>
<p class="chapter-1"><span class="text 2Pet-1-1">Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,</span></p>
<p class="top-1"><span class="text 2Pet-1-1">To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:</span></p>
<p><span id="en-NKJV-29748" class="text 1Tim-3-16"><sup class="versenum"> </sup>And without controversy great is the <sup class="footnote" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; xg-p: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">[<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+3%3A16&version=NKJV;#fen-NKJV-29748a" title="See footnote a">a</a>]</sup>mystery of godliness:</span></p>
<div class="poetry top-1"><p class="line"><span class="text 1Tim-3-16">God<sup class="footnote" style="box-sizing: border-box; font-size: 0.625em; line-height: 22px; xg-p: relative; vertical-align: top; top: 0px;">[<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+3%3A16&version=NKJV;#fen-NKJV-29748b" title="See footnote b">b</a>]</sup> was manifested in the flesh,</span><br/><span class="text 1Tim-3-16">Justified in the Spirit,</span><br/><span class="text 1Tim-3-16">Seen by angels,</span><br/><span class="text 1Tim-3-16">Preached among the Gentiles,</span><br/><span class="text 1Tim-3-16">Believed on in the world,</span><br/><span class="text 1Tim-3-16">Received up in glory. 1 Ti 3:16</span></p>
<p class="line"></p>
</div> .tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2018-10-24:1383940:Comment:17648822018-10-24T19:40:17.659ZCarlahttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/CarlaButler777
<p>.</p>
<p>.</p> Grazer, we've run out of sub-…tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2011-05-13:1383940:Comment:9732232011-05-13T19:07:49.929ZScribeDhttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/ScribeDNucov
Grazer, we've run out of sub-comments... so i'm reposting here in answer to your questions. Fair enough, I will pull out my work on this and get some answers to you. There are plenty of places where we can derive this... and I'll do my best.
Grazer, we've run out of sub-comments... so i'm reposting here in answer to your questions. Fair enough, I will pull out my work on this and get some answers to you. There are plenty of places where we can derive this... and I'll do my best. Grazer, There are so many ver…tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2011-05-13:1383940:Comment:9730412011-05-13T16:50:15.852ZCarlahttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/Carla
<p>Grazer, There are so many verses in scripture to tell us about the Deity of Christ.. Here's one example:</p>
<h5>The Deity of Jesus Christ</h5>
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-26046">1</sup><sup class="xref">(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-26046A" title="See cross-reference A">A</a>)</sup>In the beginning was <sup class="xref">(…</sup>
<p>Grazer, There are so many verses in scripture to tell us about the Deity of Christ.. Here's one example:</p>
<h5>The Deity of Jesus Christ</h5>
<sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-26046">1</sup><sup class="xref">(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-26046A" title="See cross-reference A">A</a>)</sup>In the beginning was <sup class="xref">(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-26046B" title="See cross-reference B">B</a>)</sup>the Word, and the Word was <sup class="xref">(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-26046C" title="See cross-reference C">C</a>)</sup>with God, and <sup class="xref">(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-26046D" title="See cross-reference D">D</a>)</sup>the Word was God.<br />
<p> <sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-26047">2</sup>He was in the beginning with God.</p>
<p> <sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-26048">3</sup><sup class="xref">(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-26048E" title="See cross-reference E">E</a>)</sup>All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.</p>
<p> <sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-26049">4</sup><sup class="xref">(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-26049F" title="See cross-reference F">F</a>)</sup>In Him was life, and the life was <sup class="xref">(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-26049G" title="See cross-reference G">G</a>)</sup>the Light of men.</p>
<p> <sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-26050">5</sup><sup class="xref">(<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#cen-NASB-26050H" title="See cross-reference H">H</a>)</sup>The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not <sup class="footnote">[<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%201&version=NASB#fen-NASB-26050a" title="See footnote a">a</a>]</sup>comprehend it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>What do you make of these verses? </p> Grazer,
You asked: "Who, in t…tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2011-05-13:1383940:Comment:9725222011-05-13T13:09:17.615ZRon Paynehttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/RonPayne
<p>Grazer,</p>
<p>You asked: "Who, in the Bible, makes the claims that he was God?"</p>
<p>My input on this subject earlier was that Thomas made the claim when he addressed Jesus: "Thomas answered and said unto him, <strong>My Lord and my God.</strong>" Joh 20:28</p>
<p>If this was not true then Jesus would surely have corrected Thomas. Yet there was no denial. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Have patience with me as I repeat my statement from my previous blog: "In fact if Jesus was NOT God and said nothing…</p>
<p>Grazer,</p>
<p>You asked: "Who, in the Bible, makes the claims that he was God?"</p>
<p>My input on this subject earlier was that Thomas made the claim when he addressed Jesus: "Thomas answered and said unto him, <strong>My Lord and my God.</strong>" Joh 20:28</p>
<p>If this was not true then Jesus would surely have corrected Thomas. Yet there was no denial. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Have patience with me as I repeat my statement from my previous blog: "In fact if Jesus was NOT God and said nothing to correct Thomas, Jesus would be guilty of allowing a false statement, to go unchallenged, especially when one realizes the confusion it would have created. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Finally Grazer, you speak of a need for time to get your thoughts in order concerning the Trinity. This discussion has been "Hammered" from all angles since 2009 with your good self involved. There is an old saying: "There is none so blind as those that will not see." Any further proof to this subject would simply be a repitition of that which has gone before. </p> 21 Now when all the people we…tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2011-05-13:1383940:Comment:9728182011-05-13T11:34:50.830ZRita Cullimorehttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/dannrita
<b><sup>21</sup></b> Now when all the people were baptized, and when <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><i><sup><a href="#_ftn1">c</a></sup></i>Jesus</span> also had been baptized and was praying, <i><sup><a href="#_ftn2">d</a></sup></i>the heavens were opened, <b><sup>22</sup></b> and <i><sup><a href="#_ftn3">e</a></sup></i>the <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Holy Spirit</span> descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and…
<b><sup>21</sup></b> Now when all the people were baptized, and when <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><i><sup><a href="#_ftn1">c</a></sup></i>Jesus</span> also had been baptized and was praying, <i><sup><a href="#_ftn2">d</a></sup></i>the heavens were opened, <b><sup>22</sup></b> and <i><sup><a href="#_ftn3">e</a></sup></i>the <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Holy Spirit</span> descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><i><sup><a href="#_ftn4">f</a></sup></i>a voice came from heaven,</span> <i><sup><a href="#_ftn5">g</a></sup></i>“You are my beloved Son;<i><sup><a href="#_ftn6">3</a></sup></i> with you I am well pleased.”<i><sup><a href="#_ftn7">4</a></sup></i> <a href="#_ftn8"></a><br />
<div><div><div><a href="#_ftnref1"><i><sup>c</sup></i></a> For ver. 21, 22, see Matt. 3:13–17; Mark 1:9–11; [John 1:32–34]</div>
</div>
<div><div><a href="#_ftnref2"><i><sup>d</sup></i></a> Acts 7:56</div>
</div>
<div><div><a href="#_ftnref3"><i><sup>e</sup></i></a> [ch. 4:18, 21; Acts 10:38]</div>
</div>
<div><div><a href="#_ftnref4"><i><sup>f</sup></i></a> John 12:28</div>
</div>
<div><div><a href="#_ftnref5"><i><sup>g</sup></i></a> [ch. 9:35; Ps. 2:7; Isa. 42:1; Eph. 1:6; Col. 1:13; 2 Pet. 1:17; 1 John 5:9]</div>
</div>
<div><div><a href="#_ftnref6"><i><sup>3</sup></i></a> Or <i>my Son, my</i> (or <i>the</i>) <i>Beloved</i></div>
</div>
<div><div><a href="#_ftnref7"><i><sup>4</sup></i></a> Some manuscripts <i>beloved Son; today I have begotten you</i></div>
</div>
<div><div><a href="#_ftnref8"></a> <i>The Holy Bible : English Standard Version</i>. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Lk 3:22</div>
</div>
</div> Scribe, I love the way you a…tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2011-05-13:1383940:Comment:9720252011-05-13T01:18:51.133ZCarlahttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/Carla
<p>Scribe, I love the way you answered this:</p>
<p>Grazer, this line of questioning always goes around in the same circles. Jesus did not say <strong>"I am God!!".</strong> Because to do so would have been the opposite of the demonstration of humility he came to both demonstrate and prove. Jesus instead demonstrated his Divinity and Deity, by proving it out rather than talking about it. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Amen and AMEN! Excellent response!</p>
<p>Scribe, I love the way you answered this:</p>
<p>Grazer, this line of questioning always goes around in the same circles. Jesus did not say <strong>"I am God!!".</strong> Because to do so would have been the opposite of the demonstration of humility he came to both demonstrate and prove. Jesus instead demonstrated his Divinity and Deity, by proving it out rather than talking about it. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Amen and AMEN! Excellent response!</p> Grazer, this line of question…tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2011-05-13:1383940:Comment:9722072011-05-13T00:59:51.190ZScribeDhttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/ScribeDNucov
<p>Grazer, this line of questioning always goes around in the same circles. Jesus did not say <strong>"I am God!!".</strong> Because to do so would have been the opposite of the demonstration of humility he came to both demonstrate and prove. Jesus instead demonstrated his Divinity and Deity, by proving it out rather than talking about it. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>As brother Ron said above, Jesus told the Scribe and Pharisees "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God". Mat…</p>
<p>Grazer, this line of questioning always goes around in the same circles. Jesus did not say <strong>"I am God!!".</strong> Because to do so would have been the opposite of the demonstration of humility he came to both demonstrate and prove. Jesus instead demonstrated his Divinity and Deity, by proving it out rather than talking about it. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>As brother Ron said above, Jesus told the Scribe and Pharisees "Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God". Mat 22:29</p>
<p> </p>
<p>He continuously proved that he was incarnate Deity by his miracles; And, then he also proved it from the scriptures. I could make the case here, but have already done so on several occasions. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>blessings, </p>
<p>~ Scribe</p> I get you. I was jabbing you…tag:www.allaboutgod.net,2011-05-12:1383940:Comment:9709712011-05-12T19:31:51.904ZScribeDhttp://www.allaboutgod.net/profile/ScribeDNucov
<p>I get you. I was jabbing you a bit there, too. Sorry that my humor just came across as sarcastic. So, let's consider what you have said:</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>>>an example to highlight what appears to be an absurdity in logic<<</strong> </p>
<p>So, just at the point when the idea of the supernatural seemed to be absurd, science began to bump into discoveries and theories that tell us there are indeed more dimensions to the universe than could be understood before. In other…</p>
<p>I get you. I was jabbing you a bit there, too. Sorry that my humor just came across as sarcastic. So, let's consider what you have said:</p>
<p> </p>
<p><strong>>>an example to highlight what appears to be an absurdity in logic<<</strong> </p>
<p>So, just at the point when the idea of the supernatural seemed to be absurd, science began to bump into discoveries and theories that tell us there are indeed more dimensions to the universe than could be understood before. In other words, there is a supernatural nature to the world, one that we cannot directly experience by our 5 senses. <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Yet, to the 19th century man, that seemed absurd. However it is science and not religion that has concluded this to be true.</span></p>
<p> </p>
<p>The problem of considering this to be an "<strong>absurdity in logic</strong>" as you have said, is that you can only say that <span style="text-decoration: underline;">if you have a perfect logical view of all things</span>. You and I both know that we do not. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Let me give you an example:</p>
<p>Let's say that Arian has an opinion that he could get high enough to see the whole of all the surface of the earth. His arguments for that would only hold water with those who believed that the earth was ultimately (and entirely) <span style="text-decoration: underline;">flat</span>. But, Athanasius is convinced the earth is round, so he says it is not possible because evidence of a sphere is all around and throughout. You and I, with limited knowledge may consider Arian to be wise and Athanasius to be "illogical". </p>
<p> </p>
<p>However, with more knowledge, we know that no one can ever get high enough to see the entire surface of the earth. You would have to be in at least two places simultanously because the earth is a sphere. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>end of example.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>So, you have people who want to put God into a box that we can understand from our finite (limited) frame of reference - where we can't see the full nature of God because we are in a limited universe. God simply declares that He is not to be defined or understood as what they are saying (they being the Arians of the world). God declares that He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit, that each is God, in substance; yet not the same in person. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So, do we fully understand that? No. No mortal can. But, Jesus declares it to be true. So, you are faced with a dilemma: do you decide that you know more than Jesus, or do you decide to accept what Jesus has said and accept it by faith?</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>