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Once saved always saved?
Many believe that once you are saved you are always saved and that you cannot lose your salvation or be rejected by God.
What is the scriptural basis for “Once saved always saved”? Does not the responsibility lie with the believer how he/she conduct themselves after initially being saved?
I see many scriptures that say/imply other than once saved always saved:
Old Testament:
Num 14:11 Then the LORD said to Moses: "How long will these people reject Me? And how long will they not believe Me, with all the signs which I have performed among them?
Num 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence and disinherit them..."
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king."
1Sa 28:6 And when Saul inquired of the LORD, the LORD did not answer him, either by dreams or by Urim or by the prophets.
1Sa 28:7 Then Saul said to his servants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, that I may go to her and inquire of her…"
Pro 2:13 …From those who leave the paths of uprightness To walk in the ways of darkness…
New Testament:
Joh 17:12 …Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition…
Act 8:9 But there was a certain man called Simon, who previously practiced sorcery…
Act 8:13 …Then Simon himself also believed; and when he was baptized he continued with Philip, and was amazed, seeing the miracles and signs which were done…
Act 8:20 …But Peter said to him, "Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money!
Act 8:21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
Act 8:23 For I see that you are poisoned by bitterness and bound by iniquity."
1Pe 4:17 For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 Now "IF THE RIGHTEOUS ONE IS SCARCELY SAVED, WHERE WILL THE UNGODLY AND THE SINNER APPEAR?"
Jas 5:19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back,
Jas 5:20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.
2Ti 2:17 …Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
2Ti 2:18 who have strayed concerning the truth…
2Ti 2:24 …And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,
2Ti 2:25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,
2Ti 2:26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Heb 10:29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Sister Amanda,
God bless your heart.
Please keep in mind, some of these important issues have been debated for 2000 years. And some people are set in their minds and hearts regarding their positions.
The important item is where your heart is. Don`t be concerned with other Christians (Galatians 6:4-5).
Finally, there`s one place in the Bible to give your heart a physical/spiritual exam : Romans 13:5.
I`m also continuing to pray for you, because we can`t do anything of value alone. We must have the Lord`s help. Amen.
Grace and Peace.
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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Amanda,
All of us, at some point, have had questions about something that we are learning from the Word of God. However, studying and praying, asking God to give you understanding, will go a long way. He will make things clearer in your mind and heart.
I listen to Andrew Wommack at http://www.awmi.net/ I don't agree with everything I hear but I have learned a lot from his teaching. He has radio recordings for the last 10 years or more listed that one can listen to. I got the largest blessing listening to the first 4-5 weeks in 2009.
Just be patient with us when we respond. You have legitimate questions and we want to answer to the best of our knowledge.
Blessings to you as you study the Word.
Rita
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David, David, David,
I love you in Christ, Bro.
And I wasn`t going to enter in to this centuries +++++ debate that will never end until Jesus comes back. Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus.
But, I can`t help myself. Brother Jacob is right, man.
That passage in John is right-on about secure salvation in God`s hand. Plucking means to me that someone else (or thing) has to do the plucking, which of course is impossible. But I think a person can jump out of God`s hand on their own volition.
See, I feel that God doesn`t want "robots" serving Him. If a person wants out, God lets him/her go. John 6:66.
Jesus didn`t chase after those quitters. God wants people to serve Him with the Greatest Commandment (Matthew 22:37-40).
See now Bro, you guys are getting me all charged up to jump in with all four.
Grace and Peace.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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My beloved Richard-
I actually agree with you - oh we can jump all we want from God's hand, as a figure of speech, but we can only jump as far as God allows and for however long He allows us, but plucking is impossible by our own volition.
Why would we become robots if God in his beautiful love and faithfulness keeps us until the end, to present us without blemish? How is that making robots. If a person wants out, he/she can't have their will then, simple as that, God says he bought us, not with silver or Gold, so you don't belong to yourself anymore, you are his, He sealed you and He will finish what He started in you. You did not started, nor will you finish it. You did not seal yourself nor will you un-seal yourself. Try leaving Him, see if it’s possible. It is not, where would a born again child of God run to? Drugs, hell, suicide etc... God is in Hell, in the deepest parts of the Ocean and in the furthers parts of the Universe. There is no running from Him. He will have his way in those He saved. A child of God cannot leave God, that is impossible. He may live in defeat or fall into habitual sin for a time, but the one who call him is able to make him stand. Now notice I did not used "in my opinion." I personally think those are bad words my friend when doing theology. I can plug in verses for all that I wrote above.
John 6:66 (New International Version, ©2011)
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. a
A disciple is a student, so some students turned away - that is to be expected. But no child of God can lose their salvation.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
Jesus did not go after them, because they were bastards, not legitimate children.
King James Version 12:7-11
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastened not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons
I do not feel like discussing this beat up topic either, but you guys make me hahaha hahaha do it. You twisting my arm bro. haahaha
Love you my brother.
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Richard, have you ever considered what is meant in Galatians when Paul says we are "adopted"?
I have a friend with an adopted son. That son is very rebellious at times. He sins, pouts, rants with tantrums and even tries to run away at times. However, he is and remains the son of my friend. My friend chastises him and the boy repents. Some day, my friend will die and his son will be grown. When his son is mature, my friend will leave that son an inheritance. The love of my friend for his son reminds me a lot of our relationship with God.
However, the meaning of the term "adopted" in Galatians has even more meaning. Have you considered it? It is profound.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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To add to what Scribe said, adoption in biblical times carried the understanding of a "new life." All of the old life, including name and wrongs were erased. This understanding helps to gain a fuller meaning of the concept of adoption as it relates to this text in Galatians.
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Scribe,
Very interesting.
I can`t respond just yet as I`m extremely busy at my work right now.
Yes, we have some thoughts to contribute on that passage.
Later.
Grace and Peace.
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Typically, Roman adoption was not of a child, but of a "worthy adult". At the moment the adoption took place, the Pater (adopting Father) would convey all the rights of sonship to the recipient. His signet ring, his family robe, his family crest would all be transferred and a legal document would be signed declaring the person to be his son, his heir - who was fully vested in all things. Usually, this was granted when the father was aged, and near dying.
Paul uses that image to tell us that we have the "adoption of sonship" and that we are "joint heirs with Christ".
Everything about this imagery tells me that God has pledged himself to us, apart from works. That he has granted us an inheritance.
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Permalink Reply by Jaun D. on
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That is a good thought to ponder on..
Recently, I haven't been able to go to Church and I've been feeling very bad about not going :(
During those times that I wasn't able to go to Church, the powers of evil easily comes, and I got tricked at some point, but never dug deeper. Does this mean I already lost my salvation? I was just converted last year, and I think I'm still immature at some things. :/
So tell me, if I sin at a point after my salvation, what do i do? Did I just erased my salvation? >_/p>
I want these things to get cleared in my head and my heart..
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Jaun,
Welcome to our community. God has led you to a very real virtual Church. :) Feeling very bad about not going to church is a good thing sis. I am glad to hear the Holy Spirit is convicting you for not fellowshipping. I am happy also that you found us, since this is a healthy community in which you can get your fellowship needs met up to a degree. This community should not replace going to a local church though. I do encourage you to not allow a virtual church to replace a real local Church. There is now no condemnation for us (Sons/daughters of God) God tells us in Romans 8:1, which this means is that Godly sorrow for not doing the will of God for us is good for it leads us to repentance, but condemnation is not from God who has called us to live in freedom. Condemnation comes from Satan and our flesh.
I am sure others will jump in and give you some more counsel. Going or not going to church does not make you a Christian. If you have repented and believed in Jesus, you have been born again (John 3) and you can never be unborn my sister. We can live in the abundant free life God has called us to or live in defeat and mediocrity. This depends upon your personal relationship with God. Which book of the bible are you currently reading?
Blessings friend and sister. :)
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Wow, thank you brother for one response!
Actually I am very excited to go back on Sunday. And honestly, this Holy Week was the first time I felt that it is Holy, I mean it is not like a normal day. I used to think that it's just a normal one, and feel normal and all, but this week it seems that I could remember everything that happened to Jesus before He died for us, until He died for us~ It is great having knowledge about Him and His works..
A verse that I always carry is Hebrews 8:12 (it was the very first verse I remembered after being saved!), and it says about the Lord forgetting our iniquities. At first I kind of doubted this, but the Lord won't just say something and take it back right? It's almost the same when you said of "can never be unborn"..
It made me realize, if I resist Him too much and forget Him and never repented... That is the time I could say "Goodbye salvation"?? I wonder?
Of course, I'd choose to live in the abundant and free life with God! I am still in Mark, and constantly reading Romans and Hebrews (they are some of my favorite books in the Bible) :D
I am looking forward to more people who could guide me here as well~ I feel a good bond developing with me and other members upon reading a lot and commenting on their posts. Thank you and God bless!
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:) God loves you so much that He will NEVER let you go and you cannot make Him let you go. You belong to him. You are His. He is your God - and He will do what is right for you. He will keep you even when you don't want to be kept. He does not care at that moment what you want because He is a good father. He has done that in my life too many times for me to enumerate and He will do it for you as well, but God will not be mocked, so if you sin, you will be responsible for the consequences of your sins beloved.
Do not use you God given Freedoms to sin but instead:
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